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A business associate gave me a bottle of stam yeinam as a presumably chanuka present.
Is it issurei hanaah?
Can I keep it on my desk because it makes me feel good?
Is it a hefsed merubah to not keep it on your desk?
Is starting a troll thread about it considered getting hana’ah?
Is not starting a troll thread about it a hefsed merubah?
I though that Hanaah meant only tangible gain.
Besides which, what Hanaah is there from looking a a bottle of wine?
1) Machlokes. See Rama YD 123 1. (Link above)
2) Tovas hana’ah, such as giving away to a different business associate, would be assur, and that’s not tangible.
I don’t know that that would definitely apply here, I need to look that up.
Pigs aren’t assur b’hana’ah. (not even saliva)
what kind of product is stam yeinam? never heard of it before
Pigs aren’t assur b’hana’ah. (not even saliva)
Neither is stam yeinam.
??”? says ??????? one should be ?????.
It ocurrs to me that maybe the minhag is to follow the ??”?.
DY,
From what I understand from the Rama, there is a Machloket on doing business with stam yayin Lichatchila. PBA’s situation is a bedeiavad to begin with – some one gave it to him.
Besides which, my understanding of doing business (“assur liknoto uliMacharato kidai lehistaccer” in the Rama) means as an ongoing inventory item (not a one time deal), and that includes monetary gain (hence the lashon of sachar – not including good will). Neither of which are in this case.
That isn’t how I read it.
??? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ???? (
?????? ?
?? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?????
????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???? (??? ???
????? ?????? ??????) ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ?? ???
???? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?? (?????
? ? ??? ?????? ?
?
??????? ??? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ?????? ????? ???? ???) ???
?
You can read that??
He seems to only be ???? where there is a ????.
How are you understanding?
I see it like this:
The Rama says that it’s lichatchilah mutar to collect on a debt with wine. Dealing in Stam Yayin is assur lichatchilah.
IMO, the Rabbinic issur was only for dealing because dealing leads to all the problems. A one time sale, re-gifting, or collection of a loan is OK because those infrequent activities don’t lead to all the problems.
It seems to me that you are saying that for a real hefsed it’s lichatchila assur, then for a little hefsed all the more so.
If my above assertions are correct, I’m looking at ‘why’ and you are looking at ‘what’.
(See ‘?”? ?”? ?)
Also see ‘?”? ??”? ?.
That’s your incorrect diyuk. ?”? is clearly not like that.
Something which is ???? ????? is ???? ??????
Also see ????? ???”? on ??”?.
DY,
After looking at the Shach and the Taz that you cited (thank you for the links), I now see how they pasken and learn the Rama. I still think that my read (and what I think is PBA’s read) of the Rama could make sense, but no Acharonim see it that way.
To recap the way the Shach, Taz, and Gra learn the Rama: There is only room for heter to recoup a loss by selling the (collateralized) wine that was taken. There is also room for heter if the Jew bought the yayin nesech b’issur and now wants to avoid a loss. But in the above cases it’s better to be strict.
BTW, the Mechaber’s view includes no heterim. I saw Rabbi Mansour’s “daily halacha” which says that one can’t do anything with it, not even gifting it. He says to spill it down the drain. I presume not the kitchen sink.
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“2) Tovas hana’ah, such as giving away to a different business associate, would be assur, and that’s not tangible.”
I think that re-gifting the bottle is in place of spending you own money for a gift. That is a tangable benefit.
In any event, do you have a source?
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