standing in place after shmoneh esrei

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  • #1795564

    i notice that very few people stand in their place (till Kedusha)after finishing shmoneh esrei. Is it only a minhag? Chumrah?

    #1795750

    rational
    Participant

    Some Briskers hold that the chazarat hashatz until after kedushah is a continuation of the private shmoneh esrei of the yachid, hence one should stand still till after kedushah.

    I don’t recall the Shulchan Oruch or its’ commentaries mandating that one hold by the Briskers.

    #1795752

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    At a minimum, stand quietly and don’t use the time until the shaliach tzibur starts the chazaras hashatz to schmooze with your chevrah. Its not only disrepectful to the Ebeshter, but it really obnoxious behavior and disruptive to those around you who are still completing the shmoneh esreh.

    #1795759

    rational: It’s possible that the briskers are machmir like the mechaber in OC 123:2 (also see the Rama)

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49623&st=&pgnum=286

    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=49623&st=&pgnum=287

    #1796025

    ylevy613
    Participant

    I’ve seen Rabbonim in Lubavitch who stand still even after shmoneh esrei of maariv until the Chazan says d’amiran balmo in kadish. I’ll ask someone what the makor for it is.

    #1796006

    Avi K
    Participant

    Dor, the SA says (OC 124:6) that it is much worse. His sin is greater than he can bear and he should be told off. The MB (s”k 27) brings down that several shuls were destroyed because of this. The Tosofot Tom Tov blamed the Chmielnitzky massacres on it and wrote a special “mi sheberach” for those who do not talk. It is even forbidden to talk about Torah (Aruch haShulchan seif 12) or learn quietly (MB s”k 17). The Kaf haChaim says (s”k 37) that the shul police should give the talkers many punishments and embarrass them in public.

    #1796004

    Reb Yid 613
    Participant

    I would like to explain the Sevarah of the 2 Dayos in the Shulchan Aruch.
    The Shulchan Aruch brings 2 Dayos 1. Till Kedusha 2. The shiur of 4 Amos.
    The sevarah of the Shulchan Aruch is that you want to show HaShem that you are not moving away from HaShem until you absolutely have to go somewhere else.

    #1796041

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    See the Yechaveh Daas from Rav Ovadya Yosef (5,11) who says to stay standing until Hakel Hakadash. See the RMA 124,4.

    #1796496

    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    About standing by Kadish see Yechave Daas (3,4) the sefardim don’t stand up but if standing, stay standing until daamiron.

    #1796561

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    At a minimum one should wait in place after finishing their silent Shemona Esrei and stepping back 3 steps long enough to walk 4 Amos. Otherwise they appear like a dog returning to eat his own throwup. That’s the language in the Gemora.

    #1796574

    rational
    Participant

    Dear lowerourtuition

    Thank you, I stand corrected.
    I’ll add, though, that the MB reasons that it is disrespectful to take steps back and then run away, so to speak.
    The Briskers hold that one stands through chazaras hashatz, as it is a continuation of the yachid’s SE.
    Different reasoning, almost the same result.

    #1796568

    David Y
    Participant

    It seems like some people have adopted a strange custom of going for little walks back and forth when they finish Shemoneh Esrei ahead of everyone else. Some of the antics in the Synagogue seem amusing at best!

    #1796567

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Baltimore Mayven: Thanks for sharing that tidbit with us…..just what we all needed to put us in the proper mood for Shabbos. I’ll be thinking about it during davening….

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