Stop being weak pathetic losers

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  • #1933727
    Curiosity
    Participant

    This is basically a copy and follow up of a rant I posted on the mailbag article about the poor Jewish father who got his face smashed in by some lowlife dirtbag at Target. Somebody said the answer was just to “condemn violence”.

    “Condemn violence”?!… are you for real?? What world do you live in!? Do you think being a helpless victim who anonymously ‘condemns violence’ on YWN and at your Shabbos table is going to make one blip of a difference in reducing the violence perpetrated by low brow people like the assailant in the story?! If you do, I have a bridge to sell you. Condemning violence, going to the police, or even suing the perp for all the money he has (probably not very much) wouldn’t have done a darned thing to save the author’s family from becoming a widow and orphans (ch”v) if the perp decided to step up the level of violence, or if the victim fell down and cracked his skull open. No. The ONLY answer to random violence like this should be decisive, overwhelming violence. Arm and train yourselves and your families. You are your first, last, and only line of defense against violent criminals like this. The Jewish community, more than ANYONE, should know this. Too many Jews have a slave/golus loser mentality like the ovdei avodah zara who left Mitzrayim, instead of an Am Hanivchar winner mentality like the Nation who entered Eretz Yisrael.

    The tristate area, the biggest Jewish hubs, unfortunately, are a bunch of Democrat run states. It’s no secret that Democrats have replaced real justice for real victims of real crimes with faux social justice for groups whom they presume are victims due to their race and their own flamboyant preferences. That’s why they reduce penalties for criminals and want to let felons and illegals vote to keep these Democrats in power. They don’t care about victims of violence, thugs, and gangs, and won’t even let otherwise helpless, law abiding citizens carry weapons to protect themselves from the scourges that make up their constituent base. But what Jews have is each other. Just like no Jew would dare walk into a black neighborhood and strike a black man. Nobody should dare raise a hand against a Jew. This shouldn’t be a fake Obamaesk red line in the sand… there should be real repercussions. The only thing that’s preventing this sort of protectzia from working is Jews being out of lockstep and saying silly things like we should just “condemn violence” while we get our faces bashed in by lowlifes. I’m not advocating for proactive violence, but self defense is a universal right friends.

    #1933805
    ujm
    Participant

    You forgot that we are in golus.

    Once you remember that your entire premise falls apart.

    #1933894
    Shimon Nodel
    Participant

    Ujm, is this your opinion? Do you have a source?

    #1934068
    ZR1
    Participant

    SN, you seem to have very little understanding of how things work in this world. Do you really think we’re on the level of the Am HaNivchar? That’s besides the point. The first thing you need to understand is that there is nothing that any person can do without Hashem Yisborach decreeing it first, and once it’s decreed there’s little one can do to change it. Goyim in particular cannot do a thing to a Yid since they are direct shluchim from Hashem, as the posuk says Ki Lashem Hamilucha Umoshel BaGoyim. Now, when threatened by bodily harm from the Goyim, this is a direct message from Hashem. No amount of reciprocated violence will help the situation; and a person must be mevakesh rachamim and do teshuva gamur so that maybe he will be saved. When threatened by spiritual harm (I.E. restricting Shechita, Bris Milah) this is Maaseh Satan, and should be fought, with violence if necessary. We learn this from Chanuka and Purim. The Chashmonaim were given reshus to fight a Milchamas Hashem because they realized that the weakness of Am Yisrael was a spiritual weakness, which the Yevanim were the embodiment of. Purim, on the other hand, was a direct threat of extermination and Mordechai understood that the only solution was Tzom, tefillah and teshuva. There is much to say on the subject, but I’d just like to conclude that its very important to have a basic level of Emuna and Betachon, and understanding of why these things happen, before making bold and rash statements.

    P.S. I do concede that condemning the violence is pointless, since you’re condemning the puppet’s actions in the Hands of his Master.

    #1934097
    Participant
    Participant

    thanks! I’m more than interested in
    buying a bridge. details?

    #1934123
    Curiosity
    Participant

    Ujm we are in golus – which is exactly why we have to circle the wagons and have each other’s backs. To survive golus we need to provide a united front, and not just timidly sot there with your hands up like a little sheepie while your Jewish neighbor gets his skull bashed in by a thug.

    #1934270
    Curiosity
    Participant

    ZR1. You’re making 2 fundamental mistakes.

    #1 – you’re applying the well known (and often misunderstood) halacha for when the whole klal should fight in a national war to an individual private person who is being attacked by a random thug. This is not the same thing, and nobody here is talking about starting an organized paramilitary force. The gemara also says you should teach your children to swim so that they won’t drown. According to your view, they should just do teshuva instead of learning to swim because the water is only doing Hashem’s bidding after all.

    And #2 – you’re imagining that everyone is Rav Shimon bar Yochai who has zero room in his world view for hishtadlus.

    #1934417
    huju
    Participant

    To Curiosity: Jews have been punched in the face for 3,000 years. I don’t know exactly what we are doing, but it is working. So, calm down and find something else to rant about. Or kill some cats.

    #1934464

    huju: I don’t know exactly what we are doing, but it is working. calm down and find something else to rant about.

    A good point! I believe we are doing exactly what Am Israel was doing all the time – worrying, arguing, and looking for a better way forward. So, calm down, and rant better!

    #1934791
    catch yourself
    Participant

    I love Country Yossi, but he was wrong in The Nebach of the Shteeble.

    Yaakov Avinu’s “preparation for war” was to ensure that at least one camp would be able to escape and survive. This despite the fact that he was eminently capable of fighting back (as he demonstrated in the aftermath of Shechem).

    #1934846
    Curiosity
    Participant

    Whaddya mean Country Yossi was wrong? Didn’t Chushim ben Dan lop Eisav’s off for dissing his grandfather? Didn’t Shimon and Levi massacre an entire city for messing with their sister?

    #1934859
    catch yourself
    Participant

    I’m not sure that Chushim was correct in what he did. It certainly was not the approach of the Shevatim themselves.

    Yaakov made it pretty clear that Shimon and Leivi were wrong.

    #1934896
    bored guy
    Participant

    the best thing to do is stay away from these people we are in gulas. the goyem are not our friends don’t trust them they will stab you in the back.

    #1934916
    smerel
    Participant

    Unfortunately we are in a bad situation in the liberal run areas. If we fight back we will be blamed.

    To be clear I do think we should fight back. In fact I remember back in the early 80s when the situation was worse than today there was a major fight in my Brooklyn neighborhood. A then (niftar long ago) member of the Moetzas Gedolay H’Torah told people afterwards that they should have called the JDL . On Shabbos. And despite that gadol’s personal general vehement opposition to the JDL. (Had the JDL limited itself exclusively to self defense he would not have opposed them) The Chaptzems were also a very effective crime fighter.

    But that was then when the police were apathetic towards fighting crime but didn’t arrest those who did so themselves.

    Today when guilt and punishments are determined by skin color, frum people are considered guilty until proven innocent it’s not so simple to fight back without making the situation worse.

    #1936523
    Curiosity
    Participant

    Yaakov only opposed ShImon and Levi’s action because it almost got them in trouble with local populous, he didn’t object to them in principle. Chushim ben Dan was commended for his actions by Chazal… certainly not reprimanded or criticized.

    #1937103
    catch yourself
    Participant

    “Yaakov only opposed ShImon and Levi’s action because it almost got them in trouble with local populous, he didn’t object to them in principle.”

    Well, that’s kind of the point. The fact that they were Halachically correct in their treatment of Shechem did not override the practical consideration of not offending the locals.

    Chushim is a different situation because Eisav was also not a local, and the Cana’anim probably viewed it as an internal feud among a foreign family. In any case, if he was actually a Cheresh (as it seems from Chazal), he wouldn’t have been responsible for his actions, so a reprimand or criticism would have been out of place.
    I haven’t seen it “inside” in quite a while, but I don’t remember a commendation; what’s the source for that?

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