April 14, 2011 4:08 am at 4:08 am #759504
how is it fair to your ex, even if he was the biggest rasha in the world, but its not fair to turn his own children against him.
You may want to get out of the drunken stupor, chayav. It’s about the kids, not the ex.April 14, 2011 4:39 am at 4:39 am #759505chayav inish livisumayParticipant
You may want to get out of the drunken stupor, chayav. It’s about the kids, not the ex.
i dont think its limited to the kids. and im not even sure why its bad for the kids once they are mature married adults.
let me give you credit for a very witty lineApril 14, 2011 5:43 am at 5:43 am #759506
and im not even sure why its bad for the kids once they are mature married adults.
In a world of fighting and strife, no, its not bad– it’s good. In a world of jolliness, friendliness and happiness, its not just bad, its a lot worse.April 14, 2011 11:57 am at 11:57 am #759507
truth be told..when people tell your kids their father is a tzadik when he is a TRUE ABUSER and even threw their mother into jail on 100% false charges to enhance his legal position…..SOMETIMES IT NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED WITH NEGATIVE INFORMATION.
AND,I repeat (to all the CR poster who do this),people telling people online to “see a therapist” is rude,in my opinion.
1.YOU decided they need one?
2.Maybe they see one; is it the business of strangers?
3.Maybe they saw one in the past;must they tell YOU?
4.Not everyone who has strong,or passionate,or even FLAWED thinking on a given topic needs therapy simply because you find their opinions unsettling.April 14, 2011 11:59 am at 11:59 am #759508
TBT…My post was not against you personally,chas v’sholom.
If you follow any controversial thread here,inevitably someone insinuates that another “needs therapy”.April 14, 2011 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #759509Joseph / clark-kentMember
eclipse: giving a child negative info regarding his/her parent, is akin to putting a dagger into that child’s heart. In ALL circumstances. There is NEVER a justification. Even if the other parent was the world’s top criminal. The child will be 1000 times healthier not knowing. Otherwise a parent would be lucky if such a child remains frum or even sane.April 14, 2011 1:59 pm at 1:59 pm #759510a maminParticipant
Eclipse ;The more I read about youe ex the more I shudder!! don’t worry though everyone gets what they deserve sooner or later!! wishing you only the very best!!!April 14, 2011 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #759512
What’s so bad about seeing a therapist? I did. I got a certified brain, certified to think. Any else here with a Sane Certificate? I’d rather not deal with normal-uncertified people. Scary.April 14, 2011 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #759513
May Hashem continue to grant you strength and clearmindedness to be able to raise your children in the best way possible. May your unconditional love towards them help them grow up well and bring you much nachas.April 14, 2011 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #759514mikehall12382Member
Eclipse,April 14, 2011 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #759515
Clark Kent….when your child gets poisoned against you in a serious way…it takes a malach not to say anything. I’m not a malach.April 14, 2011 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #759516SacrilegeMember
I’m sorry if I insulted you and clearly I did.
Its exactly like mikehall said, I wasnt suggesting therapy in a negative or insulting way, I merely made the suggestion to help you.
You post highly personal details about your life on an anonymous message board, and many of those details are troubling to the us on the other side of the screen. Remember, we ARE people and we FEEL for you but we cant help you because this IS an anonymous forum. My suggesting a therapist was my way of reaching out to you in the only way I could… by making a helpful suggestion.
It is clear from your response that you do not see a therapist and I sincerely hope that you will consider it.
Again, my deepest and most sincerest apologies. I wish you all the best.April 14, 2011 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #759517mikehall12382Member
Eclipse, I dont want you to think I’m insulting you either….Your obviously dealing with more than I can imagine….a professional ear can do wonders….and nothing to be ashamed of!April 14, 2011 8:35 pm at 8:35 pm #759518
Sacrilege…it’s clear? Stay away from the nevu’ah field, my dear.I’m not upset,just becoming aware of a problem here.
mikehall…I’m not streeeetched now,I was THEN,which the tapes portray.I thought I made that clear;guess I did not.
Official Afikoman Present Request to Mods:
I beg of you ,please please please DELETE EVERY PERSONAL THREAD I STARTED ABOUT THE GOINGS-ON OF MY MARRIAGE/DIVORCE/TEEN ETC.
It accomplished whatever it accomplished,but it’s doing more harm than good at this point.April 14, 2011 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #759519
Eclipse, I also hope that you didn’t take anything I said as an insult chas v’shalom. I think it’s a terrible shame that therapy has such a stigma in many circles. I feel terrible for the situation you’re in, and because of the anonymity there’s only so much we in the CR can do. I have been in therapy for years, and while I certainly don’t advertise it, it has GREATLY helped my ability to deal with some really, really rough situations over the years. I’d like to hope that the stigma on therapy is changing – I think that is partly why so many people here are suggesting it. Take care and hatzlacha.April 14, 2011 9:15 pm at 9:15 pm #759520
Zeeskite: you crack me up! Maybe that makes me certifiable…April 14, 2011 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #759522
Eclipse is not the only spouse that has been burnt. There are many such stories and there are many children who have ignored and disrespected a parent because they have been brainwashed. WE don’t know what the future holds fore Eclipse and her children so don’t be so quick to judge what she should and shouldn’t do in the future. As I said, everything is in Hashem’s hands. And IF the time comes, when her children will need to know the truth if the future. Again I say IF and again I say in the future, not when they are young but when they are old and wise and need to have more wisdom then Hashem will lead them to the truth, but the truth needs to be available.
Please do not forget about the case nebech where the father molested the daughter and not only abused the wife but had the sons abuse her as well. He brainwashed all the children against her and took them all away from her. She is now remarried and I hope one day they will all ask mechilah from her and remember the truth about both their parents. The truth about the evil father and the battered, bruised, humiliated and abused mother.
It is NOT so simple TBT as you say. YOU don’t know what goes on in the mind of an abuser. YOU don’t know what thoughts he can plant in the mind of impressionable children. He can tell them that Eclipse didn’t want them and that is why he took them to raise them. He can tell them that she was crazy and he saved them from her. YOU don’t know. Therefore she must write it down because they are not going to confide in her what he says to them, and one day they might want to know the truth and the truth has to be available to them because they might want to ask mechila from their mother. It goes so much deeper than the surface.April 14, 2011 9:50 pm at 9:50 pm #759523
I have a qualified mentor…can we lay the matter to rest? Thank you.April 14, 2011 9:58 pm at 9:58 pm #759524
Same here: “..and while I certainly don’t advertise it..”April 15, 2011 2:06 am at 2:06 am #759525
Aries,I posted before your post was posted.
I guess the mistake I made was showing them some of my notes BEFORE THEY ASKED.
I learned my lesson, because I ended up feeling pathetic for lowering myself,and have since learned to bite my tongue,and keep my notes for my forthcoming book….one day in the future.
My writing (in the form of poetry,songs,and plays) has been my personal outlet since I was a young girl.
I also have drawings.April 15, 2011 2:34 am at 2:34 am #759526
Aries,I am curious to hear your feedback on the post I addressed to you on page 1 of this thread,thanks!April 15, 2011 5:28 am at 5:28 am #759527HealthParticipant
“….when your child gets poisoned against you in a serious way…it takes a malach not to say anything. I’m not a malach.”
None of us are! But everytime I say something negative about my ex to my kids, I regret it; because it will be used against me in their mind because they are so brainwashed. I always try to stay positive because this is the only way I’ll ever get through to them!
But please, don’t be so hard on the posters here it’s not possible for them to understand. Only someone who is in the same Parsha can really have empathy!April 15, 2011 5:34 am at 5:34 am #759528
Health, do I really come across as “hard”?
Oy. I try to stay civil.April 15, 2011 5:58 am at 5:58 am #759529
I never heard the term “ambient abuse”, it is a modern term for gaslighting which is a well known term for someone undermining someone else’s self-confidence, self-esteem sense of self making them believe they are crazy, incapable and basically losing their minds. For instance lets say you put your keys down on the desk and you are pretty sure that you did but you find it in the fridge. You rack your brains to remember how and when you put them in the fridge. You think it is odd, your spouse tells you that you must be under a lot of stress, so don’t worry about it. Then other strange things happen and he seems very supportive but you begin to feel you are losing your mind. HE is setting you up to feel you are losing your mind and HE is actually moving your keys and creating the scenarios that are making you freak out. He is making you feel like you are losing your mind which causes you to feel incapable and unsure of yourself. This causes you to feel weak and depressed. Which makes him the hero for caring for you, and he gains all the sympathy for having a crazy wife or a wife that is going crazy.
It can go as far as making someone lose their mind and force them into a psyche ward.April 15, 2011 6:15 am at 6:15 am #759530
YOU don’t know what goes on….April 15, 2011 6:40 am at 6:40 am #759531
Are you a prophet? How can you possibly assume its gas lighting or ambient abuse. You are not helping anyone by claiming this. In fact, you may be making things worse.April 15, 2011 7:55 am at 7:55 am #759532
Aries ….you are so eloquent.
I wish you could lead a press conference for a lot of my relatives!
But if they don’t even “chap” the glaringly obvious stuff, this will be even more abstract to them.
Ahhhhh…..it’s only Olam Hazeh,right?:)April 15, 2011 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #759534adorableParticipant
eclipse- so how did you treat yourself on the night of the wedding?April 15, 2011 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #759535
How? Reading all our heartfelt ?????.April 15, 2011 5:07 pm at 5:07 pm #759536
TBT….forgive me,but YOU ARE WRONG.
The WORST PART of what I went through,AND THE MAIN REASON I WAS TRAPPED IN IT FOR SO LONG was because of not being taken seriously.
There is a time and place for playing devil’s advocate;THIS IS NOT IT.April 15, 2011 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #759537
And I knew it was passive-aggressive THEN.April 15, 2011 5:13 pm at 5:13 pm #759538
What story don’t you believe??
Are you friends with my ex? Do you abuse your own wife? Where is your resistance coming from?April 15, 2011 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #759540MindOverChatterParticipant
eclipe: Please don’t jump to conclusions. It’s very hard for someone who’s not very familiar with abuse to actually believe there’s such a concept. I know of a case similar to the one Aries described, but B”H, the kids ended up returning to the mother (thanks to one of her innocent caring daughters). If I wouldn’t have heard of that case, it would’ve been very difficult for me to believe that kids can fall for the abuser and reject the innocent.
Hatzlacha Rabba, and may Hashem reveal the truth very soon. Good Shabbos and Good Yom Tov.April 15, 2011 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #759541
“love both parents”…if the father caused the opposite,how is he in the clear?
Boruch Hashem,HASHEM RUNS THE WORLD, and I currently have a kesher with every single one of my children. No credit to their father,or any of his puppet assistants.
But let’s not go into Pesach arguing.
Truce?April 15, 2011 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #759542
TBT: Just because you haven’t witnessed this kind of abuse (and may you never) doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. What story don’t you believe? You’re naive if you think this would never happen in the frum community.
When my husband and I were dating, he also had a hard time believing that someone could be “THAT bad”. When he had finally spent enough time around my certain family member with raging BPD, her true colors came out, and it made his blood run cold. I said OK, now imagine being trapped growing up in the environment every day of your life.
It’s almost a good thing that we weren’t frum then, because I would have been blacklisted because of her. Fortunately, he married me despite her. It has been difficult, but we have worked together to protect our family from her toxicity. Our children have never been alone with her, and they know nothing about what I went through. It will stay that way unless/until I need to tell them in order to protect them and/or the next generation.
If you don’t believe my story either, that’s your problem. I’m not her victim anymore, and I certainly won’t protect her if others are at risk of becoming her prey. I strongly believe that’s how HASHEM wants me to handle it!April 15, 2011 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #759543
PARENTAL ALIENATION SYNDROME (P.A.S.) is as real on the nose on your face….and don’t tell me you don’t have a nose:)
Divorce Poison is a book that addresses it quite well, and gives the rejected parent tools to remain connected despite the p.a.s. obstacles.
B”h…things have improved by leaps and bounds (with the kids he took) and all the brochos from tzadikkim I’ve gotten were that
ALL my children would be together with me one day.April 15, 2011 7:22 pm at 7:22 pm #759544
Please do not forget about the case nebech where the father molested the daughter and not only abused the wife but had the sons abuse her as well…April 15, 2011 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #759545
I’m sorry you are hurting. I’m sorry you’ve gone through some very difficult times.
The question is what should be done now. Treating wounds with the wrong type of medication will not only not improve things, they will make it worse. Sometimes, a lot worse.
Have any of the Tzadikim you’ve gotten brochos from advised to inform your children as to how terrible you feel your ex, their father, is? If so, ask them to do it for you.
But I’m certain that they didn’t advise you that. There’s a reason why.
A Frielichen, Kosheren un Frielichen PesachApril 15, 2011 7:38 pm at 7:38 pm #759546
What story don’t you believe??
Are you friends with my ex? Do you abuse your own wife?
Do you feel this is the healthiest reaction? There aren’t any other possibilities?
This is precisely my point. When we’re in pain, our vision blurs a little. Our reactions are not the same of that thought-out high-school teacher. That’s why I feel it’s crucial to get advice, in person, from a person with proven track record, to guide people through their painful situations.
a Kosheren un Frielichen PesachApril 15, 2011 7:50 pm at 7:50 pm #759547
It’s true there are often 2 CONFLICTING sides to a story.
But in abuse cases,the other side is often lying through their teeth,or EXCUSING OUTRAGEOUS ABUSE. It’s not even the same “story”!!April 15, 2011 9:58 pm at 9:58 pm #759548
TBT, in your over-zealous need to argue with me you assumed too much. I did NOT say in any way that the sons “molested” their mother. I said they abused her, and they did. It came out in court. The father YMW is in jail today. It is all public knowledge previously discussed on this blog.
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