December 16, 2020 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #1929202bk613Participant
It can reasonably be argued that the Government created, or at the very least greatly contributed to, the current student loan crisis by allowing young people to borrow tens of thousands of dollars with little more than a click of button. This endless source of money has led to colleges to raise tuition prices further perpetuating the cycle of student debt.
Yes, ideally college freshman should have been financially responsible and not borrow money they have no idea if they will ever be able to repay, but l’masseh millions weren’t and now there is a serious problem.
One potential benefit of forgiving some/all student debt is it will free up millions of dollars that borrowers will now have to use to stimulate the economy. Even if as some have argued, debt forgiveness will favor the wealthy, the money will still end up back into the economy in some way.
It will obviously also help the lower and middle class who have high debt.
No, it’s not fair for those who saved for years to pay tuition/student loans out of pocket, maybe something can be done to compensate them for doing the right thing. But that doesn’t mean those who are currently struggling and will likely struggle for decades paying off their debt don’t need help.
Personally, I can support federal student debt forgiveness only if the government first fixes the core problem (LOL) and not hand out tens of thousands of dollars every year to ever 18 year old with a pulse. Otherwise we will end up in the exact same position in 5 years.
With that said, do you believe the government should “bail out” the millions of people who have racked up all this debt?December 16, 2020 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #1929218HealthParticipant
Bk613 – There was a leaked phone call from Biden.
All he could actually do is reverse Trump’s Executive Orders.
He can’t do anything that requires Congress.
And I was hoping to get rid of my Gov. Loans.December 16, 2020 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #1929258Reb EliezerParticipant
When I went to Brooklyn College I only paid for the first 18 credits, $18 per credit, proving that I can succeed and than be matriculated. For NYU graduate school it was $100 per credit for 24 credits for a masters degree.December 16, 2020 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #1929277NOYBParticipant
The government created the problem as a whole, but the truth remains that the people who borrowed money individually have to return the money they promised to return. This isn’t going to return anything to the economy, because most people with productive jobs are already paying off their loans and are also spending money already. The people with no money to pay their loans got there because of bad financial decisions, and that won’t change if we forgive their loans.December 16, 2020 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #1929287☕️coffee addictParticipant
I totally favor it!
I borrowed the full amount I could for every semester and I had little interest in paying it back
😜December 16, 2020 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #1929289🍫Syag LchochmaParticipant
If it was little interest I wouldn’t mind it so much
😝December 16, 2020 8:23 pm at 8:23 pm #1929290bk613Participant
“This isn’t going to return anything to the economy, because most people with productive jobs are already paying off their loans and are also spending money already.”
Correct, but instead of these productive people giving say $1000 to the gov and spending another $1000 on other things they now have $2000 to spend on other things. How will this not benefit the economy?
“got there because of bad financial decisions”
And should therefore be condemned to a life of financial hardships? Would you let people discharge student debt in bankruptcy? This is different than other debt (credit card, mortgage) because as you agreed the gov played a roll in creating the problem.
“that won’t change if we forgive their loans.”
True which is why I support not handing out loans like candy.December 16, 2020 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #1929291
This is not a healthy attitude “government made me borrow” beyond my means.
To remind you, Obama cancelled private loan programs in 2010 and made gov the only lender. This generated “savings” of 70 Bln that year that were redirected elsewhere – as “guaranteed” loans have no “cost”. There are already forgiveness ways – if you work for a “non profit”, teach, or, gasp, work for the government.December 16, 2020 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #1929297Amil ZolaParticipant
Once upon a time state college educations were free to residents. My undergrad in NJ cost me about $1k a semester.December 16, 2020 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #1929313smerelParticipant
As the posuk says Lovah Rosha V’Lo Yishalem.
Candidates who get into office by forgiving such debt and giving out other money and of course forcing other people to pay for it is one explanation the Gemara gives for Chesed Lumim ChatasDecember 16, 2020 11:12 pm at 11:12 pm #1929321Reb EliezerParticipant
Things happened out of their control and currently they are unable to pay, so they are not a rasha but an onas. Smerel the way you speak you must be a Republican. We are all in the same boat and either sail together or sink together. Borrowing money for education benefits the government as they will become a skilled worker able to pay taxes.December 16, 2020 11:40 pm at 11:40 pm #1929315GadolhadorahParticipant
What about all the students who worked two jobs and weekends to earn sufficient income to pay off their loans. Will the government reimburse them for stupidly having struggled to meet their financial obligaitons??December 17, 2020 8:52 am at 8:52 am #1929341
RE: out of their control and currently they are unable to pay, …will become a skilled worker able to pay taxes.
This forgiveness plan covers much more people – most of them were in control of their actions and, apparently, did not become skilled workers. This, as already ongoing forgiveness for working in desirable positions, such as government, is de-factor re-distribution of wealth from working people to university administrators and non-profit/government sector workers
As to “stimulus” effect – this is stimulating the wrong people, who will now advise their children to go get a “free” degree in “gender studies”.
One reasonable solution is to tie degree-producers to the loans, either as co-signers on the loans (defaulting loans are paid by college, not taxpayers), or by using direct contracts lehathila – you will pay for college in the future as a percentage of your working salary. The latter contracts exist in a couple of places already.December 17, 2020 9:15 am at 9:15 am #1929439kollelmanParticipant
@Health – he can’t even reverse any executive orders – as SCOTUS has ruled that there are no rules anymore, laws don’t matter, and Hussein’s Executive orders – although completely illegal, still stand (DACA). It’s a free-for-all. Oh, I forgot, that’s only for Democrats. Carry on.December 17, 2020 9:17 am at 9:17 am #1929422ubiquitinParticipant
that argument can be made to oppose any policy. don’t ban abortion, what about all the previously aborted fetuses, don’t get rid of the draft, what about all those previously drafted ? No tax cuts, what about those who paid the higher taxes etc etc *
It is a silly (albeit emotional) argument. If it is good policy, it should be enacted asa soon as possible those who “missed it” well life isnt fair. If it is not good policy, argue why it isn’t. But your argument is an emotianla not logical one.
(*yes these aren’t EXACTLY the same)December 17, 2020 9:38 am at 9:38 am #1929446hujuParticipant
Part of the problem of student loan debt is the rise in tuition substantially in excess of the rate of inflation. I am not clear on the wisdom of student loan debt forgiveness, but it is crucial that something be done about the explosion of tuition rates.
I have always been struck that in all political discussions of student loan debt, the tuition explosion is mentioned very little. In discussing this issue with my adult children, who themselves have children several years away from college, they are taking a much different approach to college: they will send their kids to lower-priced public colleges, rather than the prestigious private colleges they attended as undergraduates. And these days, my kids say, graduate school is the real key to entry into the work force and a profession.December 18, 2020 12:42 am at 12:42 am #1929720
kollelman:– he can’t even reverse any executive orders
indeed. I wonder whether the Supremes will use it as a precedent for the next administration.
huju: rise in tuition substantially
I think one short-term answer for our community is online colleges or online programs in regular colleges. Their tuition is generally 50% off regular price, making even out-of-state state colleges reasonably affordable. With current financial squeeze, they should be happy to accept “full” (full online, i.e. 50%) tuition students.
In terms of quality, some explicitly offer same professors and diplomas as their offline departments.
Socially, this is probably even safer than over-priced “kosher” colleges w/ dorms. Maybe it is possible to have several friends to apply to the same program and study together.December 18, 2020 10:47 am at 10:47 am #1929805akupermaParticipant
1. Are we talking about simply cancelling the load (meaning the Federal Treasury pays it), or allowing the borrower to file for bankruptcy (reducing the Treasury’s liability)? If bankruptcy, would Chapter 13 be required, and if Chapter 7 is allowed, would people who used student loans to buy realty be required to give up their equity (in some states, equity in a home is exempt property). Will the amount of the “forgiveness” be taxable income (meaning rich people who get out of their student loans still get a massive tax bill).
2. Do we distinguish between those who used the student loans for living costs (to avoid having to “live like a student”), and those who paid tuition? Do we treat those who used loans to go for fancy school the same as those who were using the loans to attend less expensive schools.
3. Do we expect the real beneficiaries of the loans, the colleges that got the money, to pay some of the costs. It can be argued that the major impact of student loans was to allow colleges to overpay their professors and to created bloated and overpaid administrations.
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