Sukkos divrei Torah

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  • #599848

    sam4321
    Participant

    Q: We know that if one uses a stolen lulav they are not yotzei the mitzvah because of lachem.Why don’t we say a’sei(shaking the lulav)knocks of the lo ta’sei(stealing)?

    A:By adom l’chaveiro a’seh does not knock of the lo tas’eh.

    A:Stealing has hashvas aveida connected to it(a’sei),so a a’sei(shaking lulav) cannot knock off a a’sei and lo ta’sei(stealing).(M’rafsin Igri)

    #815863

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    I don’t get it. Lachem is a T’nay in the Mitzva. Besides, unless you are stuck with only others’ Lulavim, we don’t say that it is Doche, and Mitzva Habaa Ba’aveira is always a problem.

    You should have put this topic under Beis Medrash.

    #815864

    Sam2
    Participant

    I agree with HaLeivi’s point. The question never gets off the ground. Your question would only apply after the first day, in which case Lulav is D’Rabannan and stealing is D’Oraisa. And even so, you can only say Aseh Doche Lo Sa’asei when the two are simlutaneous. If the Lo Sa’asei comes first then it’s a Mitzvah Haba’ah ba’aveirah.

    #815865

    sam4321
    Participant

    In Sefer Bais Yakkov Rebbe Yakkov brings down that there were tzaddikim who stayed in the sukka even when it rained.We all know the famous halacha that one who is mitztar is patur from the sukka so why did they stay?

    A:He explains that we say this idea when the person will be relived from his tzar if he goes inside,but a tzaddik who loves Hashems mitzvos and waits the whole year in excitement to do the mitzvah their pain would not be diminished on the contrary it would add to the tzar.The Rama(640:4) says only if the tzar will be gone is one exempt.The idea of the cup being thrown in the servants face(when it rains) he explains a chacham stays on his watch and if the master needs him he will be ready to help and the master will forgive as opposed to the shoteh who storms out.

    #815866

    sam4321
    Participant

    haleivi: I didn’t realize where I put it,can I change it?

    #815867

    Sam2
    Participant

    Sam4: That one doesn’t make sense either. batel Da’ato Eitzel Kol Adam. If you’re Pattur you’re Pattur and bringing food that will be ruined out is presumably an issue of Bal Tashchis.

    #815868

    sam4321
    Participant

    I am just quoting from seforim on the chag I am not here to argue or dispute the topic.I am not saying halacha these are vertalach only.

    #815869

    sam4321
    Participant

    I am well aware that people argue on people who eat in the rain but in fact many chasuva people still ate in the sukka

    #815870

    Sam4321:

    ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?

    ???? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?”? ???? ???’ ???? ???? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ?”? ?? ???? ??? ???”? ??? ??? ???? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ?”? ???? ????? ?”? ????? ???? ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ????? ????’ ????? ???? ????? ???? ????? ??? ??”? ????? ?”? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?’ ????? ???? ?? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?????

    #815871

    Sam2
    Participant

    Well, then these Vert;ech feel very strange.

    #815872

    am yisrael chai
    Participant

    Public service announcement:

    We need someone to contribute on the nightly Dvar Torah sticky above, on top of the main page.

    TIA

    #815873

    sam4321
    Participant

    The other vort was from kmotzai shlal rav

    #815874

    sam4321
    Participant

    The Tiferes Shlomo explains miztar patur min hasukka: Mitztar,he will be patur from his tzar through sitting in the sukkah,since the idea of succha is to protect and shield.(Sam2 this is another example of a vort not halacha)

    #815875

    Who is like Hashem Yisbarech?? He gives us Yom kippur, a day where we mamesh become higher than melachim! We walk out of yom kippur with this feeling of pureness, because we were just given the most tremendous gift. We were given the gift to be completely cleansed, attached to Hashem, and given the ability to transcend to new levels in our avodas Hashem. It doesn’t stop there! We are given the mitzvah of Succah! We come out of Yom Kippur, with the another yuntif full of simcha! Where we are mamesh sitting WITH Hashem. The inspiration you feel now is just the beginninG! Hashem gives us this yuntiif to make that inspiration really become who we are! We go into the succah, and say, “Hashem I want to be with You!” The succah shields us so that we can become great, so that no outside influences can get in the way! How amazing!

    Stay strong and hold on to that inspiration, because through the kochos of succos, YOU WILL become that inspiration!

    #815876

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Ragachovers Assistant, thanks for that. It is Devarim Mistabrim. I was going to add to my comment that although I didn’t think there was a Shaala, his answers are good ones.

    Sam4321, if you request it, the moderators can chamge it, I think.

    As to staying on in the rain:

    I heard that Reb Moshe stayed, saying that it doesn’t bother him. I’ve felt, and then saw in the Mishmeres Shalom (Kaydinov), that the Mashal in the Mishna only applies to Eretz Yisroel. In Chutz La’aretz, where it typically rains in that time, it is not a deliberate Simman.

    Sam2, why would you apply Daas Kol Adam here? Mitzta’er is an individual based rule.

    #815877

    sam4321
    Participant

    Ragachovers Assistant:Thank you for the info.

    #815878

    BSD
    Member

    R Chaim Ozer ZT”L once had a distinguished guest visit him on succos. He was old and frail at the time and could not withstand the cold Lithuanian winters, and so when his guest went out into the succah to eat, R’ Chaim Ozer apologized to him and explained that he would not be joining him since mitzta’ar patur min hamitzvos. A short time later, the visitor was surprised to see R’ Chaim Ozer all bundled up enter the sukkah. R’ C.O explained, true that mitzta’ar is patur from th emitzvah of succah, but not from the mitvah of Hachnasas orchim. (as we see from Avrohom Avinu)

    #815879

    Sam2
    Participant

    Sam4: Assuming I read it right, I never get vorts like that. It Mamash completely reverses what the words mean.

    HaLeiVi: I feel like it should apply. Have to think it out more. Can you say that a real Istenis is always Pattur because just being outside annoys him?

    #815880

    sam4321
    Participant

    Bsd: like it!

    #815881

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    I haven’t met that time of person, but I did hear of a fat person who didn’t fit out his door for a very long time. After losing some wait he went outside but he felt very insecure and uncomfortable.

    Also, Ke’ein Teduru can’t be excluding the very fact that your own room is covered with a solid roof.

    #815882

    sam4321
    Participant

    Sam2:It is called a chassidish vort.(I can understand why one wouldn’t like them but if you can look past the halacha aspect they are very nice)

    #815883

    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    Batul Daato is said when we are defining what is normal. You cannot make your own norm that is different than what is actually normal. This applies to a Shinui in a Melacha on Shabbos, as well as juicing uncommonly juiced fruits. In our case, we are not trying to figure out what something is. We are asking what the person feels.

    Here’s one place where feelings play a big role in Halacha.

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