May 11, 2011 4:38 am at 4:38 am #766304
I was referring to ofcourse’s statement, “The couples managed on their own with much less needs.“, implying that today’s young couples are spoiled.May 11, 2011 12:42 pm at 12:42 pm #766305
DY: Everyone survived with less, in the prior generations. Now air conditioning is a requirement, let alone heat.
I wonder if you would say the same about Rabbaim, or do they “deserve” more?May 11, 2011 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #766306
I wasn’t agreeing with ofcourse’s rant, I was saying that it was unrelated to the OP.
I agree with your post, although certainly some take their gashmius to a higher level than a/c.
I think kollel yungerleit and rabbaim deserve to live at a normal standard and in most cases are willing to live more frugally than most.May 12, 2011 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #766307
Years ago there was a division of classes. We all knew where we belonged and accepted it. Today most want to be WANT TO BE(S) and have the same. You can’t buy a car but you can lease it and pretend you have it. On the same hand there are many couples who are doing it on their own and B”H surviving. They may not live in a Condo/House bought by Tatte/Shver but live in an apartment building and yet some may be happier because they don’t owe anyone anything except to Ribbono Shel Olam!!! Now don’t get me wrong…we do help our children. My husband is not American and his children come first. However, now in the process of moving(nows my turn) we are giving away some of our home furnishings for free. One of our children were here when a young,just married Chassidishe couple came to look and our very used furniture(in excellent condition but over 25 years of use), and considering taking some. My son openly told me that it was good he was here. Had he not seen it he would have not believed me….and he had a good lesson to be extremely thankful to Hashem to landing him to parents that are there to help pay his bills etc. and that he can learn without headaches.May 12, 2011 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #766308
DY: Current normal or “unspoiled” normal?May 12, 2011 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #766309
Good question. Since the question was what they deserve, I would say current normal. B”H most are willing to live at a standard below that, and unfortunately, many are forced to live at standards considerably lower than that.
Since what we’re talking about is subjective, I’ll give an example.
Essentially, someone involved in avodas hakodesh should receive our utmost respect, and deserve to dive a Lexus. However, this would be distasteful, because someone in avodas hakodesh is expected to be above such pursuit of gashmius.
Wouldn’t it be nice, though, if our klei kodesh were able to drive a relatively late model, respectable looking vehicle, to fit his family in comfort, and not be busy every week at the mechanic?
Unfortunately, though, too many must drive an old, beat up jalopy with barely enough room, and constantly getting it repaired just to get it into working order.
UnfrtunatelyMay 12, 2011 6:06 pm at 6:06 pm #766310
DY: No arguement here regarding the value of a Talmid Chacham. However realize that the reason why Klei Kodesh get paid less is due to good old fashioned Supply (very high) and demand (medium-low). For Kollel Bochrim however, supply is high, but demand is in the clouds. As such, they get “paid” more, in the form of support, and they can “ask” for more, due to relative lack of supply (which is why Kollel in many cases live better than Rabbeim).
P.S. It would be nice for all of us working folk to be Klei Kodesh as well. Someone has to actually pay tuition.May 12, 2011 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #766311umMember
btw GAW I would like to hear a name of one of THE GEDOLIM somehow that question went right over your headMay 13, 2011 6:05 am at 6:05 am #766312
If you break it down to dollar amounts, I think rebbeim generally get more than kollel, even including parental support (granted, there are exceptional cases of super wealthy parents who give generous support for years). The reason you perceive it the other way, I think, is because the kollel yungerleit are more often at a stage in life where there are fewer expenses.May 13, 2011 6:14 am at 6:14 am #766313
btw GAW I would like to hear a name of one of THE GEDOLIM somehow that question went right over your head
Did you look up the story I referred to in an earlier post? I’ll summarize; the Gerrer Rebbe feigned anger and yelled “meshiginer” at someone who felt it was worthwhile for yungerleit to leave full time learning out of concern for what the financial situation will be decades later.May 13, 2011 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #766314
DY: Very good point (I still think it is possible support pays better than rabbaim, especially in places like Lakewood where there is a glut, but you could be correct).May 13, 2011 1:38 pm at 1:38 pm #766315
It’s possible, but it’s hard to know, since there’s such a huge range when it comes to support; some give a small amount to supplement the wife’s income , tutoring money, and programs, and some give enough for a luxurious lifestyle. I’m sure there’s a narrower range for rebbeim’s salaries.
I also depends on whether you count the free tuition rebbeim get (I would).
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