Home › Forums › Inspiration / Mussar › Survey: Are you more frum than your parents or less frum than them?
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August 24, 2016 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #618218JosephParticipant
Are you more frum than your parents or less frum than them?
August 24, 2016 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #1171124JosephParticipantA follow-up question is, if applicable, are your children more frum than you or less frum than you?
August 24, 2016 6:18 pm at 6:18 pm #1171125Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantDefine Frum :).
Does the definition change if someone calls themselves MO?
August 24, 2016 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #1171126JosephParticipantDefine it yourself and explain how you defined it in relation to your response to the question(s).
August 24, 2016 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #1171127Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantI’m more Frum than my parents, but they are baalei teshuva so it’s different. As a kid, the way I viewed it was that by being more Frum than my parents, I was following in their footsteps to a very small degree (since they are more more Frum than their parents than I am more Frum than mine). So maybe they should be considered more Frum than me?
My children are more Frum than I am – they are so Frum that they couldn’t deal with the concept of being in a world of gashmius and preferred to stay in the Shamayim.
August 24, 2016 6:23 pm at 6:23 pm #1171128MenoParticipantSome would consider me OTD along with my parents
My kids are too young to be OTD
August 24, 2016 6:43 pm at 6:43 pm #1171129gofishMemberWhat do you mean by frum?
Larger yarmulka, more chumras, a connection with Hashem, more chitzoniyus, more pnimiyus?
August 24, 2016 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #1171130MenoParticipantMy father wears a yarmulka which is about 4 times the size of mine.
August 24, 2016 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #1171131JosephParticipantgofish, see my response to lilmod regarding definition.
August 24, 2016 7:33 pm at 7:33 pm #1171132gofishMemberI see it now – the wonders of asynchronous conversations.
In regards to external trappings, my parents definitely *look* frummer.
But as to how I would define frum, I’d venture to say say that I think I’m frummer.
I’ll post later how I would define frum – I have to think about how to concentrate it into one post.
August 24, 2016 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1171133Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantMeno – either his yarmulka must be huge or yours must be teeny or both. Which is it?
And how could both you and your parents be OTD? They went from Chareidi to MO and then you went from MO to Chiloni? Or they went from Chassidish to Yeshivish or vice versa and then you became MO?
I always thought you sounded pretty Frum from your posts as far as I can recall.
August 24, 2016 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #1171134Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantGofish: “In regards to external trappings, my parents definitely *look* frummer.
But as to how I would define frum, I’d venture to say say that I think I’m frummer.”
That sounds interesting. I’m curious to hear how you define Frum.
August 24, 2016 8:42 pm at 8:42 pm #1171135MenoParticipantLU,
I wear a pretty small Yarmulka (not tiny) but my father wears a huge one.
(4 times the area, which means only twice the diameter)
And I was just saying OTD according to some of the definitions that have been popping up around the coffee room. It was a joke. Most of the things I say are just jokes.
August 24, 2016 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #1171136🍫Syag LchochmaParticipantconsidering both my parents reside in a place that is purely emes and spirituality I don’t think it’s even comparable.
August 24, 2016 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #1171137Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantMeno – Don’t worry, I realized it was a joke.
August 24, 2016 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #1171138Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantJoseph – what about you?
August 24, 2016 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #1171139Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantSyag – your response reminds me of a shidduch resume I was sent. For the question “location of parents”, the guy responded with the name of the cemetery.
August 24, 2016 9:02 pm at 9:02 pm #1171140SparklyMemberJoseph – it depends. im less frum than my dad but as frum as my mom.
August 24, 2016 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #1171142SparklyMemberMeno – why are you considered OTD? wearing a small yarmulka DOESNT make you OTD. what makes someone OTD is if they stop keeping shabbos and kosher and some other stuff.
August 24, 2016 10:08 pm at 10:08 pm #1171143Little FroggieParticipantMy mother doesn’t even wear a yarmulka (gasp).
Truth be told, I unfortunately do not come up to their ankles in being frum or Yiras Shamaim. My father works in Kiruv, one-man-band, 26/7 as a side job. His regular job is in Kiruv, mass scale with a known organization. My mom also works… She is a role model of what a Jewish Jew ought to look like.
Sorry Mommy I’m so lacking. Maybe one day…
August 24, 2016 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #1171144Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantLittle Froggie – it’s the hasagos that count the most…I remember a teacher of mine once saying (possibly quoting Rav Hutner Ztzal) that someone who did not spend his whole life learning and now wishes he had is greater than someone who spent his whole life learning and wishes he hadn’t.
August 24, 2016 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #1171145dovrosenbaumParticipantI’m definitely more religious than my parents.
August 24, 2016 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #1171146Person1MemberSocially we’re similar. In pnimius they have their stronger points and I have mine. With that said I’m in awe of their avodas hashem sometimes.
August 25, 2016 2:04 am at 2:04 am #1171147HappygirlygirlMemberI don’t want to be mekatrik on myself therefore this question will remain unanswered on my part
August 25, 2016 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm #1171148MenoParticipantSparkly,
I have a smartphone. I think some people in the coffee room had said that having a smartphone means you’re OTD
August 25, 2016 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #1171149Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantMeno, I’m not sure, but I think if that was said it was probably only said in a certain context. Like, maybe in response to a post about smoking being OTD, someone said that IF smoking is OTD, then having a smartphone for sure is. I could be wrong, but it’s a bit hard for me to imagine that someone in the CR could have said that and meant it literally.
August 25, 2016 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #1171150Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantMeno – I feel better now though knowing that’s what you meant. I was going to ask you, but I was worried about what the answer would be…
August 25, 2016 1:45 pm at 1:45 pm #1171151ExcellenceParticipantWe think we are something we really are not.
Lets not kid ourselves. If we were frum why are we still reincarnating time after time? The yester h doesn’t mind; another lifetime of sins to collect. The issues we have today are baggage we hauled from our previous lives.
We need to make tikun and try to clean up ourselves.
August 25, 2016 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #1171152Person1MemberMeno I’m not sure whether you’re joking. I said something similar and it was in the context LU explaind. Also it really doesn’t matter what name you give something.
August 25, 2016 4:50 pm at 4:50 pm #1171153MenoParticipantI was joking. I’m usually joking. I’m a clown, that’s what I do. If I’m ever not joking, it will be very clear that I’m not joking.
August 25, 2016 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #1171154Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantI thought you were an engineer…
August 25, 2016 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #1171155gavra_at_workParticipantI’m certainly more concerned with externals (definition of “Frum”) than my parents. It is a sign of the times.
A Galach is Frum, a Yid is Erlich.
August 25, 2016 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #1171156MenoParticipantEngineer is only my profession. I am a clown
August 25, 2016 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #1171157Person1MemberMeno I had a friend once who made jokes all the time. I forget what happened to him.
August 25, 2016 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #1171158FriendInFlatbushParticipantYes
August 25, 2016 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #1171159MenoParticipantPerson1,
Hmm. I had a friend once who was a person. Maybe it was you
August 25, 2016 9:20 pm at 9:20 pm #1171160Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantgavra _ at_ work:”A Galach is Frum, a Yid is Erlich.”
I read that in Rav Yaakov Kamenetzky zatsal’s kehila, they used to refer to people as Ehrlich, not as Frum.
I really like that. It has a much more pnimiusdik connotation, and sounds like it includes both Bein Adam l’Makom and Bein Adam L’Chaveiro, both Halachos involving actions and chovos halevavos.
August 25, 2016 9:30 pm at 9:30 pm #1171161JosephParticipantFriendInFlatbush: In what way?
August 25, 2016 9:57 pm at 9:57 pm #1171162Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantJoseph – what about you?
August 25, 2016 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #1171163JosephParticipantlilmod, I was going to answer the same as my parents, but after reading Little Froggie’s excellent response I reconsidered and realized him to be correct for me too.
(Thanks, LF!)
August 25, 2016 10:21 pm at 10:21 pm #1171164smerelParticipantI can’t really answer the question because my parents didn’t deal with the same internal or external situations (nisyonis) that I do. Nor did they grow up with the adanatages I did.
All things being equal who is/would be frummer? I don’t know.Only Hashem knows who is really frummer.
August 25, 2016 10:34 pm at 10:34 pm #1171165Lilmod UlelamaidParticipantSmerel – we are not talking about who is better. That no one knows as you wrote.
August 26, 2016 12:53 pm at 12:53 pm #1171166gavra_at_workParticipantI read that in Rav Yaakov Kamenetzky zatsal’s kehila, they used to refer to people as Ehrlich, not as Frum.
I really like that. It has a much more pnimiusdik connotation, and sounds like it includes both Bein Adam l’Makom and Bein Adam L’Chaveiro, both Halachos involving actions and chovos halevavos.
Exactly. Frum means Chitzonius, how you want others to view yourself. Erlich means “honest” (literally), which is how you want to relate both to the RBSO and others.
August 28, 2016 12:21 pm at 12:21 pm #1171167nachumbergParticipantmore or less frum doesn’t quite make sense
either you are frum or you are not
I am frum & so are my parents PERIOD
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