Swimming shirts

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  • #1957996
    johnklets
    Participant

    I want to hear members opinions: When kids or bocherim are going to swim in swimmingpool, should they wear a swimming shirt to cover the upper part of the body ?

    #1958066
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    If they don’t have enough sunscreen absolutely

    #1958076
    Yankelle
    Participant

    If they are swimming separately, then there is no shayla, and if they are mixed swimming, then there are much bigger shaylas.

    #1958121
    johnklets
    Participant

    I’m talking about a group of boys only, mixed is ossur anyway as you said

    #1958161
    jews4biden
    Participant

    ofc not

    #1958203
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    The Aruch Hashulchan O’CH 75, says that hair not covered by a woman does not prohibit davenen infront of it since this became a custom, there is no hirhur. The MB argues on this. Certainly currently boys are used to seeing each other like that.

    #1958244
    rational
    Participant

    ? ומעתה, בסווימינג פול מחייבי לכיסויי מעילא, במקוה טהורה מיבעי
    OCD is not a mitzvah. Excessive prohibition is a bad idea.

    #1958240
    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    We always wear a shirt when swimming.
    Why is tzniyus only for women?

    #1958299
    TAS
    Participant

    With all due respect reb eliezer, that Aruch Hashulan has nothing to do with the question. There is no concept of erurah by the man besides for the evurah (and maybe the other private part) but besides for that, one may make brachos opposite a man wearing only undergarments. The chiddish of the Aruch Hashulan is not needed. And no one I know applies it to anywhere but to hair.

    His question is based off sensitivity. Should one wear a shirt or not?

    #1958364
    akuperma
    Participant

    Until the mid-20th century, men would be arrested for indecent exposure if they went swimming without a shirt. So are the Yidden in 2021 less modest than the goyim were 100 years ago?????

    #1958386
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    My prove was from rishonim quoted by the above Aruch Hashulchan that we follow the custom of the current behavior. We can make brachas with men wearing only undergarments because we are used to that. This answers the BaltimoreMaven question also but by women two wrongs don’t make a right.

    #1958401
    TAS
    Participant

    “we follow the custom of the current behavior” may or may not be a good argument but the proof from the A”H does not have legs to stand on. He is discussing that since rm”l married woman go with their hair uncovered, we can make brachos in front uncover hair. He holds it is forbidden to walk around uncovered both there and in even haever. The sugiya of making brachos has nothing to do with walking around half naked. There is an iyan to get dressed underneath covers. That would be more comparable than making brachos.

    As in a side, We can make brachos in front of other man because their bodies to us isn’t eruvah just like a woman to another woman.

    All the best

    #1958550
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Since that is no erva by men the question is there hirhur. Hair is assur because of hirhur. Erva is not related to being used to but hirhur is.

    #1958580
    TAS
    Participant

    The A”H’s heter is based off that since there is no hirhur therefore there is no problem of erva. The whole sugyia there in brachos is based off this assumption. There is a difference in “proper” erva which is forbidden even without concern of hirhur and between the additions that chazal added that are also forbidden because they generally lead to hirhur even if at that moment there is no hirhur.

    But I don’t think you properly answer the OP’s question

    #1958695
    bored guy
    Participant

    This is a question for you’re local orthodox rabbi.

    #1958845
    Toi
    Participant

    I think the answer is pretty simple. It’s for sure muttar lihalachah. If you feel it’s “grubb” or felt in edilkeit, feel free to wear a shirt.

    #1962538
    johnklets
    Participant

    I know there is a lot of ehrliche yidden and yeshiva boys who swim without shirt and some whith very short swimming pants too, on the other hand in some chassidische camps the boys are required to were shirts and a bit longer swimming pants, although still higher than the knee, it is clear to me that both ways are accepted by the halacha autorities. What i want to understand is that we know that a man should not expose the usualy covered places of his body even when he undresses himself before changing to pyamas at night even when alone in the room. So while a ehrliche yid does cover his upper part and his legs while changing in his private room he exposes them in swimming pool in front of people. There is indeed an exeption for a bathhouse and mikveh because that the derech of washing and toivling, but in which category does swimming pool fall in ? Is it a necessety to swim without at least a thin shirt and thin longer pants ? And especialy when swimming for a longer time and for sport or enjoyment. so, there is my question, why is a swimming pool different ? Anyone with good sources please respond.

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