- This topic has 8 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 11 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
In one of the issues of the Zman publication they write that Rabbi Avigdor Miller, in his question and answer sessions once answered a question about how we should view the books of Philo, who considered many things that are related to the Torah, not as actual events, but as allegories. Philo wrote for example, that Avrohom and Sara were not actual personalities, rather the Torah was talking about two ideals.
Rabbi Miller said that the truth is in between. For example Pharaoh is not a name, but a title. All the kings of Egypt were called Pharoah. The Rambam says that although there was definitely on a real Pharoah of yetzius Mitzrayim, nevertheless, Paro hu yetzer hora.
The Torah is both a combination of actual events and personalities and also symbolic.
Now if I may carry this further, I would say it is symbolic to us, to flesh and blood humans, who cannot see the TRUE SPIRITUAL REALITY, and therefore to us it only appears symbolic.
I have always wondered how Pharoah could’ve only been 3 amos in height. But if we look at it in a symbolic way, which I think is the actual spiritual reality, then he was short as a little child in maturity. As we know in Egypt they worshipped the Pharoes as gods and also their culture seemed to be steeped in fantasy land regarding their myths and gods and all, so therefore they seem to be in reality not mature adults, rather foolish children who think that humans (the Pharoas), the river (the Nile) and other symbols that lived only in their minds, were reality.
And what appeared to the Jews as well, that Phoraoh was some big fearful person, the Torah comes to tell us his true maturity, his true growth, which is that of a small child.
If anyone has some thoughts regarding symbolism in the Torah or in life, please post it here.
What height do you think the Medrash would assign to President-Elect Trump?
I can see the potential confusion coming from this thread, and these are very important issues.
The Torah is meant to be literal, to the best of our understanding, unless there is a mesora stating otherwise. In other words, when the Torah mentions the Hand or Finger of G-d, etc., we know that is not literal since chazal tell us that Hashem has no form. when the Torah tells us to take “an eye for an eye” we know that is not literal because our Oral Torah tells us that it means the monetary value of the limb. But the stories are real, the people existed and are not symbolic, although obviously their lives and actions have an educational relevance for us and are not meant to only be historical figures. when we say “ma’aseh Avos siman l’bonim”, we mean that their actions are both a guide and foreshadowing for the children’s future experiences, but not that they themselves were merely symbolic. To rephrase the quote from R Miller above, there is a huge difference saying that Pharoah was a title referring to multiple actual kings (which comes from Chazal), much as we would use President or Czar or Caesar, and that Avrohom and Soro Chas v’shalom did not exist.
In terms of midrash, some are literal, some are not, one need to rely on talmudei chachamim to understand them and not pick and chose and decide on your own.
WinnieThePooh: People say a lot about “we know” or “we don’t know” when there have been different opinions throughout Jewish history. There have been rishonim who acknowledged (and in the case of Raavad even gave tacit approval in some ways) to the idea of God having some kind of “hand” or “finger,” for example, and some parts of the Torah have been described as purely mashal (with Rambam saying that the entire Iyov is purely mashal). There are also a lot of different opinions on which midrashim to take or not take literally.
SO take “everyone knows” with a grain of salt.
Writersoul – whether or not there were such opinions (which I’m not sure about) we don’t posken that way. We posken that it’s kefira to believe such a thing. So saying “we know” is correct.
“I have always wondered how Pharoah could’ve only been 3 amos in height.”
Why?
Meno – +1. I think that’s about 4 and a half feet, so there really is no question. I mean, even if it were one foot, I don’t think there’s a question either, but 4 and a half feet? What’s the problem?
None of the accepted Rishonim ever said anywhere that Hashem is a physical being. Even the Raavad, according to most interpretations, only means that a person who mistakenly holds such a belief can”t be considered a min, since he’s basing himself on a literal interpretation of the pesukim.
I think you mean 1 amah. According to the gemara the average person is about 3 amos tall, which comes out to between under 5 feet and 5 feet 8 inches. Chazal say that Par’oh was only 1 amah tall, which is between 19 and 23 inches!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.