systematic/institutional racism

Not only that, there are so many laws on the books today making discrimination at every level illegal that it’s simply ridiculous to claim the “system” is racist. Affirmative action shows just the opposite, as does Barack Obama’s ascension the Presidency. What blacks are complaining about is actually individual racism. That’s where they’re screwed – if people dislike blacks, or where any race dislikes another, there’s nothing that can be done about it, because it’s a personal sentiment, beyond the reach of the law.

@someone in monsey
Really? If you were to go to a job interview and get the feeling afterward that they are not interested in you because you’re frum, is there any way you can sue the person? Of course not. If a Black person knows that his resume is much less likely to get a call back, there’s no legal remedy for that but it’s still systemic racism.

This, of course, doesn’t mean that these phenomena exist. You would have to look at empirical data for that, and the evidence is mixed.

One of the rare occasions I have agreed with Joseph. Religious discrimination is illegal.

@som1 your initial premise is incredibly flawed and I hope that you are able to see the errors in your way of generalizing. You also use a few tropes that are commonly used by anti Semites. Replace the words Democrats with Jews. That is literally what my Dad went up against in the 1970s as he and other Jewish students fought to overturn the quota of Jews admitted into his universities medical school.

It would be more helpful of removing the lenses of “us vs. them” “democrats vs. republicans” and look at this from a neutral viewpoint.

I hope that we can agree that there are both discriminatory laws and unfair enforcement of the same laws.

Generally the people who are in power tend to write laws to keep themselves in power. This can be seen all the time when voting districts are created. Additionally, in certain areas, there have been laws that are designed to suppress the votes from low income and also formerly incarcerated individuals. In those same areas the low income and formerly incarcerated populations tend to be minorities. Now when the laws are enforced at a higher rate per capita than other people, that is a biassed system.

It goes beyond just law enforcement. The media is more likely to devote more time covering crimes against white victims as opposed to minorities. When the criminal is being discussed, if you pay attention to the details, white criminals are generally described more positively when compared to coverage of criminals who are minorities.

One of the main points the BLM protesters are making is that:<i> African American’s have been unfairly judged based on their skin tone for generations. Treat African American individuals with the same amount of respect that you would afford any other person. Take an inward look and try to put yourselves in their shoes before you judge them.</i> As Jews this should be easy for us to do. We have also been discriminated against and unfair laws were also made against us as recently as 2020. Each person, including non Jews is created Btzelem Elokim, we should judge other based on their individual worth and we should be able to empathize with them.

By effectively closing your mind and saying that the Democrats are hypocrites you are not helping the issue. Expand your knowledge and be willing to open your mind to the idea that others may have a point even if you do not generally agree with them. If you don’t want to do this, at least reconsider your statement, because it is often falsely made about Jews controlling everything and we all know how that generally holds up.

Chaim,

Definitions are important when you state that there is systematic racism against blacks, does that mean there are polices in place that targets specific groups of people?

Are you referring to affirmative action?

Or any other policies?

You use bad neglected areas or lack of good jobs. Is that the result of racism? What can be done to change that? Funnel billions of dollars towards those specific groups?

If the lack of father figure, lack of being raised with the same moral compass as others is a sign of systematic racism and the communities own doing, then we have different definitions for what systematic racism is.

I have mentioned this recently here, all that you have listed is true, but where are the black community leaders when it comes to these issues? Why are they busy instigating the black community to become racists and go against the white man?

Charlie has called me out as a bigot, and others have disagreed very strongly. But none have pointed out anything that would indicate that any of the leaders in the black community that actually are actively working on these major issues.

Chaim Schulem:

“which is a mess that continues to grow” – It’s dichotomous to say that a growing mess is caused by a decreasing racism.

It’s true that there are lingering effects of past discrimination and that vicious cycles of poverty exist. That being said, it’s very difficult to argue that it’s a primary factor in today’s racial disparities. From 1950 to today, America has become far less racist by banning segregation, redlining and workplace discrimination, yet Blacks are worse off today with both the wealth gap and the income gap widening. In addition, other ethinic groups have started off with no capital in their communities and still achieved equity.

I do agree with you if you’re talking about the sociological effects that past racism had on the hopelessness and inferiority complex within the Black community.

American Holocaust survivors came to this country penniless following an attempted genocidal extermination across the European continent, which had been their ancestoral home for a thousand years. And they just lost a majority of their parents, siblings and family to that Nazi genocide murdering six million of their brethren, a third of the population. Yet, nevertheless, within a few decades they successfully rebuilt better than before economically, spiritually, familiarly and emotionally.

Don’t tell anyone that historic discrimination against blacks from over a century ago is responsible for their poor economic status, high rate of criminality, broken families with no fathers, teen and unmarried pregnancies and all their other self-inflicted wounds.

Jews were beaten down much much worse and came back much much better, far far quicker.

Joseph

I don’t think it’s correct to compare the Black experience with ours. Jews that immigrated up to the 20s had to sign affidavits that they have jobs waiting for them and that they also had communal social nets including people that would vouch for them when they arrived. The Hungarian Jews that arrived after the holocaust, in addition to the above, received reparations from the Germans, unlike Blacks who are still waiting for their 40 acres and a mule.

Same, btw, with the Russian Jews who came to America in the late 1800s/early 1900s. They, too, came to America with no family sponsors and penniless after fleeing from Czarist Russia with nothing other than the clothes on their back. And they too within a few short years were prospering rather than constantly demanding America give them handouts.

And they do not have a large criminal element, they do not riot, they do not loot and they do not burn down buildings when America doesn’t give them what they demand or when a criminal is apprehend by the police.

To add to what Joseph posted.

They did not have stable jobs, getting a new job only to be fired for not showing up on Shabboss.

Today, however, things have gone the other way. The systematic racism and discrimination is affirmative action which discriminates against white males.

There is plenty of institutionalized racism in the US but it isn’t directed against blacks. It is directed against white people

Sotomayer, that “wise Latina lady” who thinks her race makes her superior would not be on the Supreme Court if she were a white male making the equivalent comments about Latinos.

It would be unthinkable for a politician to talk about looking for a white male to fill a position . It is totally acceptably to express a preference for hiring a non-white.

Elizabeth Warren didn’t lie and claim to be a minority on her Harvard and job applications because whites have an equal shot in this country.

etc.

What is more of a factor for inner city (black) kids. The disappearing middle class or, the biased judicial system?

Maybe the lack of proper values: cohesive families, education and hard work.

smerel -“There is plenty of institutionalized racism in the US but it isn’t directed against blacks. It is directed against white people”

I personally think it’s not the Blacks fault. But the Fault lies with the Democratic Party.
They have been Pushing this Narrative for Umteen Years. Don’t take responsibity for your Actions, when you could blame s/o else.
They are eating it up.
The doctor who’s in Charge of HUD, was brought up in the Detroit Ghetto. His family taught him – to be sucessful takes a Lot of Hard WORK!
Very few in this world, of Any color or race, wants to Work Hard.
Everybody Wants the EASY WAY OUT!

Dear Joseph,
America is the Great Melting Pot. Blacks in the south were forced into their own pot. While everyone paid attention to the main pot, the other pot was allowed to boil over.

N0mesorah

It wasn’t just in the south. I think there’s a lot of truth behind what the Conservatives say, that what the North did with its “de facto” segregation and general oppression was just as bad as what the south did dejure.

Dear Shnitzel,
I could not think of a way to make it work in the analogy.

@nomesorah

I’m assuming you’re referring to Jim Crow not Slavery. The only difference between the north and south is that the south made it very difficult for blacks to vote and weren’t allowed to use the same water fountain. Other than that, whites in both areas made it difficult for Blacks to be upwardly mobile, using redlining and, yes, also using segregation (there is a old achool building thats a National Landmark in Hillburn, NY near Monsey, because that district didn’t desegregate until 1943).

Dear Health,
Until today Blacks have their own melting pot that is largely ignored. I opine that the societal changes that are paying attention to the over boiled pot, is due to immigrant communities (Used to be Jews, than Latinos, now Asians.) joining the wrong pot.

There is systemic racism in the u.s. but it comes from the progressives, not the conservatives.

All of the blacks problems stem from the welfare state which came into being in order to prevent them from integrating into society.

Progressives since the late 60’s have built the ghettoes- physical and mental – that prevent blacks from the living normal lives they might have achieved after the civil Rights victories of the 50’s and 60’s .

The racism of thz slavery and Jim Crow eras is indeed gone. Today’s racism is from progressives who want to manipulate blacks as a monolithic vote black and cynically adopted policies to prevent from ever leaving the modern day plantation.

IMHO, if African American educators/influencers would talk more about Jews’ sacrifice for blacks, such as KKK’s murder of Schwerner and Goodman in 1964, it would help to reduce hate venom spread by racist supremacist N.O. Islam’s Farrakhan.

Dear Som,
You are describing Socialism. I agree that it is worth being bigoted so as not to be a socialist. Most Americans, and virtually all Jews disagree with me. Oh well.