March 9, 2015 7:15 pm at 7:15 pm #615124Bubby BParticipant
The photo on YWN, showing Neturei Kartaniks burning the picture of Rav Ovadia Yosef,ZT”L, is what brought this to my mind. The goyim hate us enough, why do Yidden have to hate in this way? Yes, it
makes for what to talk about, but such talk may be more harmful than helpful. The act that was done is a Chilul Hashem, and the publication of such news is an even greater Chilul Hashem.March 10, 2015 12:46 am at 12:46 am #1063447goofusParticipant
Things like that need to be brought to our attention so we can combat that sort of behavior in the future.March 10, 2015 3:43 am at 3:43 am #1063448JosephParticipant
How do you intend to combat it, an armed militia? This stuff has been going on for over half a century so however you’ve been combating it, clearly, it hasn’t been very successful.March 10, 2015 10:38 am at 10:38 am #1063449BarryLS1Participant
On issues like this that Goyim see, it is important for us to make a clear statement that they are a radical fringe minority. They are creating a Chillul Hashem and harming Jews in the process and we need to counter them.March 10, 2015 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #1063450ironpenguinMember
You’re right that we have to make a clear distinction publicly that these sort of fringe groups do not represent the Jewish majority. The problem is that its really hard for manhigei Yisrael to label this group as problematic. Neturei Karta is very anti zionistic so they side with people who are also anti zionist. The problem is that in this post-WWII era, people will not openly say they are anti semitic, they’ll say they are anti zionist. So these groups are siding with people who hate Jews.
Unfortunately, the Manhigei Yisrael will not openly say this. The Yeshivish Olam can also be said to be anti-Zionist, in that they are against the government and the establishment of the state of Israel. However, the Yeshivish Olam does not side with non-Jews to protest. Because of the similarities of mindset, I believe there will not be a clear distinction made between these radical groups and mainstream Orthodoxy. Without a clear distinction made, the secular government can’t prosecute radical anti Israel and anti-Jewish protests by the Neturei karta. So, their actions are protected by freedom of speech and they will not stop their behavior.March 10, 2015 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #1063451
For the record, they burned a CAMPAIGN POSTER with a photo of Rav Ovadia Yosef on it, not simply a picture of him which is somewhat different. The headline was inflammatory and misleading.
Also, what does it matter if there is a clear distinction between Neturei Karta and other frum Yidden regarding freedom of speech? It’s applicable, at least under US laws, no matter who they are aligned with.March 10, 2015 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #1063452zahavasdadParticipant
Kavod L’Rav superseeds Freedom of Speech.
FYI if a Campaign poster has Psukim on it, you are not allowed to destroy it. Campaign poster is irrevelentMarch 10, 2015 8:04 pm at 8:04 pm #1063453
ZD: Agreed about kavod haRav. I was responding to Ironpenguin’s remark about why the Israeli government isn’t prosecuting the dissenters. Because it’s hopefully not exactly like Putin’s Russia, not because of any missing line of differentiation.
And I was merely pointing out that the YWN article was misleading, not that NK were correct.
Nobody mentioned anything about Psukim so where does this apply here? And according to NK it probably doesn’t matter as they classify the whole poster as Kefirah, hence it should be burned regardless of what’s on it.
.March 10, 2015 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm #1063454goofusParticipant
We combat it by pointing out the foolishness in their behavior. Once that happens, even the members of the group will begin to dissent. That is what the internet is for.March 10, 2015 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #1063455zahavasdadParticipant
The point was it was a photo of known Gadol , it doesnt matter what the photo was printed on. You cannot be disrepectful to it. I doubt you could be disrepctful towards it if it was printed against his will
Israel does not have a written constitution like the US, It is an oral implied constitution like the UK, Freedom of speech isnt the same there as it is hereMarch 10, 2015 8:49 pm at 8:49 pm #1063456nolongersingleMember
A photographs isn’t sacred. The comparison to psukim is totally off. In fact, many tzadikim were opposed to being photographed because they held photographs are a form of avoda zora. And they would have wanted any photo of themselves to be destroyed.March 10, 2015 10:34 pm at 10:34 pm #1063457loudandproudMember
There are oddballs and fanatics in every group. I’m sure that the idiots chanting and burning stuff do not represent all Neturei Karta. It’s the same everywhere else. You see 5 crazy Jewish/Christian /Black/White/Mormon/Tall/Short/Californian (fill in however you like) people …. Does that make them all nuts?March 11, 2015 1:47 am at 1:47 am #1063458
I think Neturei Karta ALL want to be very vocal to get their message out, which presumably includes burning stuff. Just my two cents…March 11, 2015 2:00 am at 2:00 am #1063459👑RebYidd23Participant
A lot of people get messages out without burning stuff.March 11, 2015 3:09 am at 3:09 am #1063460
Yeah but it costs a lot more to advertise than burn stuff and get free publicity on YWN…
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