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As a BT, one thing I’m still trying to understand is the way that observant Jews avoid mentioning Hashem and the Mitzvos when talking to non-observant Jews or non-Jews.
For example, some prominent and well-regarded Torah-observant Jewish lecturers will talk about tradition, morality, etc., when making a point, but avoid saying “We do this because it’s a commandment from G-d.”
Doesn’t that represent a lack of emunah and bitachon?
I don’t think it’s due to their own lack of emunah, it’s just that they’re trying to instill emunah in others who may be lacking, and are trying to be subtle, because they think it will be more effective.
Maybe they’re trying to get on the level of a less observant Jews and nonJews.
Saying “We do this because it’s a commandment from G-d” may alienate unobservant Jews and nonJews.
For the record, when I was less observant, a rabbi told me point blank, “We do this because it’s a commandment from G-d” (in his words), and I loved it! It was refreshing to hear oneself speak in this way, instead of the sales-pitch approach –which I less prefer and can be a turn off.
So yes, I agree that saying that we do this because Hashem said so does require emuna and bitachon. At the same time, maybe observant Jews have more success saying it in other ways, or want to avoid confrontation. Avoiding confrontation in itself may supersede here, since it’s looking out for one’s pikuach nefesh.
Sometimes maybe it’s better to let the kiruv speciailists and rabbonim do the teaching.
Agree. Its not easy to listen to someone talk about G-d for a while, people get anxious. Not everyone, even many frum jews, can think G-d and not get scared off. It helps to realize He’s not out to get you but that takes time. Also, since holy topics are more esoteric and have very fine points, it can be hard to relate to them and even if a person can understand and relate to them he may not be able to actually live with them as a concrete reality – be able to relate to them with his whole self. The idea can just dissipate.
DovidBT: Many FFB are taught not to say certain things (especially to non-observant yidden) since it will now put the non-observant in a position of “meizid” (intentional) instead of “shohgeig” (inadvertent).
As for non-jews, if you tell them it’s “We do this because it’s a commandment from G-d” they will generally respond “but it doesn’t say that in the Bible”. Do you really need to then get into a discussion abut Torah Shel Ba-peh?
but avoid saying “We do this because it’s a commandment from G-d.”
Whenever I speak to people, that’s *exactly* the reason I use when people ask me about the mitzvos. Yes, there may be other, incidental reasons, but ultimately, it boils back to “because God said so.”
The Wolf
DovidBT,
I’m still not convinced
What does that mean? That you think observsant Jews are lacking in emuna and bitachon?
DovidBT,
For example, some prominent and well-regarded Torah-observant Jewish lecturers will talk about tradition, morality, etc., when making a point, but avoid saying “We do this because it’s a commandment from G-d.”
Doesn’t that represent a lack of emunah and bitachon?
I disagree completely. The fact that Orthodox Jews talk unabashedly about Hashem is part of what drew me towards Orthodoxy in the first place. When, however, a non-Orthodox Jew asks me why I keep my fridge light off on Shabbos, simply responding, “because Hashem told me to”, while true, would not actually answer the question. He’d immediately retort, “where in the Torah does it talk about refrigerators??”
“where in the Torah does it talk about refrigerators??”
That’s actually a simple one to answer – לא תבערו אש – but I get your point.
I think it would answer the question, Avram, but it wouldn’t be sufficiently a clear answer to the questioner.
Joseph,
Exactly.
DaasYochid,
That’s actually a simple one to answer – לא תבערו אש – but I get your point.
True – I could have probably come up with a better example, like answering why we observe 8 days of Passover instead of 7 (Avi K with a plug for moving to Israel in 3… 2… 1…).
dovid i think you are not convinced because i suspect you sense a different reason. i think what you are sensing but not clearly able to articulate is the following. we who work on and have established some degree of Emunah are nevertheless in exile and steeped in the ways of the goyim. we sometimes forget why we do things and do them out of habit. we sometimes drift away from Hashem. we sometimes feel uncomfortable mentioning Hashem for fear we’ll look foolish. the other reasons and calculations given here are also true. but our humanness and lackings are always there also. maybe thats what is bothering you
WB, Feivel!
R Shlomo Freifeld sometimes translated “cheit” as failure or missing the mark (he brought a proof to the meaning.) He said sometimes we need to give a little life to these concepts. When asking what does cheit meant he remarked along the lines of, “a sin? a sin, a sin, sin has as much meaning to us as…ich veis vos (i dont know what).” And, “go to a university and tell someone about sin, theyl laugh in ur face. It has no meaning.”
I think i get where feivels coming from but i dont think it’s fair to say that about everyone. There were/are big people that sometimes garb ideas in more relatable ways.
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