February 8, 2016 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #617197outreach613Participant
When we daven Shemone Esrei we are talking to Hashem One on one – we have our own private Yichidis with Hakodosh Boruch Hu. So how does this reconcile with the the Chazal that says The Melochim take our tefillos to the Kisei hakovod and we have to daven towards Yerushalayim because thats where our Tefillos our channeled to Shamayim….Any explanations would be greatly appreciated.
ThanksFebruary 9, 2016 1:11 am at 1:11 am #1198050dnetskMember
Ya might want to check Rashi and Tosfos.February 9, 2016 4:30 am at 4:30 am #1198051WolfishMusingsParticipant
Any explanations would be greatly appreciated.
Yes… it’s very simple. HKBH hears your tefillos without any help and regardless of the direction you face.
The WolfDecember 9, 2016 4:38 am at 4:38 am #1198052
10 month old thread***
Was it midrash or gemara where they said that angels send someone’s tefilla to Hashem right away if it’s in Aramaic?December 9, 2016 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #1198054Mashiach AgentMember
the angels carry your tefillos to Hashem but they don’t interfere in your privacy with Hashem & see what you are davening for, that is between you & HashemDecember 11, 2016 4:30 am at 4:30 am #1198055
That is not the same as believing in intermediaries?
What about praying to the Rebbe or at the Rebbe’s Ohel?
Does your tefillah go to the Rebbe, of blessed memory, who then transfers it to Hashem? Or does an angel take the tefillah from the Rebbe’s neshamah and then pass it to Hashem?
Or does one talk directly to Hashem when talking to the Rebbe or at the Rebbe’s Ohel (any Rebbe)?December 11, 2016 4:36 am at 4:36 am #1198056
I’m pretty sure that it is assur to daven to the Rebbe and that it may be Avodah zara. My friend’s brother-in-law took the wine off the table when his Shabbos guest told him that her teacher told her that she can daven to the Rebbe instead of Hashem.
We are only supposed to daven to Hashem.December 11, 2016 9:11 am at 9:11 am #1198057WinnieThePoohParticipant
I am no expert in Chasidus, but I believe they see the Rebbe as an intermediate, a pipeline, so to speak, that brings the tefillos to Hashem. To use an inadequate analogy, it would be like asking the CEO’s personal secretary to put your call right through to the boss, as opposed to going through the regular switchboard. It’s not a great analogy though, because unlike the CEO example, a regular person can “get through” to Hashem without any help also.December 11, 2016 9:46 am at 9:46 am #1198058☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
(WinnieThePooh’s post doesn’t apply to any “Chabad” person
who talks to you about “davening to the Rebbe,” though.)December 11, 2016 5:43 pm at 5:43 pm #1198059Torah613TorahParticipant
It’s sort of like asking how does Hashem control nature, aren’t there intermediaries. Yes. That is “how” Hashem does it. But our human terms do not suffice to”explain” G-d.December 12, 2016 12:05 am at 12:05 am #1198060
The way that I remember being told about the Chabad Rebbe of blessed memory is that davening and/or talking/writing to him is like confiding in your lawyer who has a very strong relationship with the judge.
Since the Rebbe is so close to Hashem, he can petition for you and do things for you that your direct plea to the judge wouldn’t accomplish. The answer’s not always Yes or in your favor, but the Rebbe has more pull and in general gets better results for his clients.December 12, 2016 1:12 am at 1:12 am #1198061
LB- there is a reason why Chabad and the last Lubavitcher Rebbe were considered problematic by most/many Orthodox Jews. If the Rebbe said that people should daven to him, that may have something to do with it.December 12, 2016 1:56 am at 1:56 am #1198062
Dunno if the Rebbe said that. A couple shluchim may say that. Yet not all shluchim believe or teach in that way.
Up until the most recent years, I had no clue that there was any controversy about the Rebbe.
It does make me feel better now to know that I can pray and talk directly to Hashem and it’s just as valuable and heard.December 12, 2016 3:08 am at 3:08 am #1198063
Even more.December 12, 2016 8:21 am at 8:21 am #1198064WinnieThePoohParticipant
I find it a bit ironic. Originally, chasidus intended to open up yiddishkeit for everyone, so that even the simple folk who weren’t learned could have a relationship with Hashem through avoda and tefilla, and not feel disenfranchised by their lack of Torah. But by emphasizing the role of the Rebbe as an intermediate, they are distancing people from having a direct relationship with Hashem, and perhaps even giving the mistaken impression that davening can be done only through an intermediary (seems LB had that impression until now).
The way it seems now, if you are litvish you can daven directly to Hashem, but if you are Chasidish, you need to ask the Rebbe to daven for you. This seems to be a distortion. Can someone who knows more about chasidus explain this discrepancy to me?December 12, 2016 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #1198065
“Dunno if the Rebbe said that.”
okay, I’m not mekabel that he said that. And I hope my words aren’t taken as Motzi Shem Ra. I was just saying that if he in fact said that, then…. But I was not trying to imply that he said that, since I don’t know.
And I am also not mekabel that all (or maybe any) Chabadnikim say that. I am just saying that if they (or anyone else) does, it MAY be a serious problem.
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