December 9, 2021 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #2040135charliehallParticipant
“teach Gemorah to ladies have significant names and arguments behind them”
My rav o”h quoted Rabbi Joseph Soloveitchik z’tz’l as saying that it was a chiyuv to teach gemara to women. And one of the few halachic statements we have from him in writing is one in which he orders a school to all their limdei kodesh classes be co-ed. He refused to give that psak until the school leaders agreed to follow his psak no matter what he said. And of course he himself founded a co-ed school.
Obviously there are those who disagree who have the stature to do so. But I suspect that none of them comment in the YWN comment fields.December 9, 2021 11:01 pm at 11:01 pm #2040138charliehallParticipant
” Nationalism/Zionism is just as illegitimate”
It is very clear from both Tanakh and Chazal that Judaism is really the original nationalism. One People, with One God, given One Land. The idea that there is no nationalism in Judaism is actually the heresy of the German reformers of the 19th century. It is shocking to see supposedly frum Jews promoting that heresy on a frum site.December 9, 2021 11:18 pm at 11:18 pm #2040151
Is state of Israel less important than a kikayon?December 9, 2021 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm #2040158
Obviously there are those who disagree who have the stature to do so. But I suspect that none of them comment in the YWN comment fields.
Perhaps not, but we heard it from people who most definitely did have the stature to not only disagree, but declare, as Avira said, that he wasn’t merely wrong; his opinion was based on foreign influence.
And you don’t have the stature to disagree with them either…December 9, 2021 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm #2040163
Heresy? It’s Zionism which is heresy.
Have you read בעיות הזמן? Perhaps you think you are iyf stature to argue with R’ Reuven Grozovsky?December 10, 2021 1:15 am at 1:15 am #2040162
charlie > he orders a school to all their limdei kodesh classes be co-ed.
One possible reason for mutual misunderstanding is that you and your opponent address different communities. I would question whether Rav Soloveichik would suggest opening a similar school in boro Park. To the best of my knowledge, he did not. Similarly, people from different communities can not comprehend his approach.
PS a case of society affecting halakha from Daf Yomi Tannis: community fasts and davens for rain and gets it. It then stops the fast and says Hallel Hagadol. Before hallel, in Israel, everyone goes home to eat to say Hallel in the proper satiated state. In Mehuza, Persia they’ll say Hallel before dinner. Why? Because in Mehuza they might drink too much at the dinner (to prevent the drink driving back to shul?)December 10, 2021 1:16 am at 1:16 am #2040170
charlie > Judaism is really the original nationalism
not in the modern sense. Judaism does not excuse behaviors because of his nationality. Tanach differs from many ancient texts and stellas by recording negative events about Jewish leaders and people, rather than just victories. In our days, I don’t think the Author of the Tanach would able to get a haskomah or print most of the Tanach at a Jewish publisher despite his infinite powers.December 10, 2021 1:22 am at 1:22 am #2040171
> his opinion was based on foreign influence.
I am confused, which nation is teaching Gemorah to girls so well that they influenced R Soloveichik? If you suspect the infuences, they would surely have come from his German university training. We can presume that even if he was influenced in 1930s, he was aware of the failure of German philosophy to form a society at the end, so he would surely take that into account. Your argument might hold more for Rav Hirsh, for example, with his respect to German culture.December 10, 2021 1:29 am at 1:29 am #2040165
The kikayon wasn’t made by reshaim with the intent to destroy Yiddishkeit.December 10, 2021 12:05 pm at 12:05 pm #2040187AviraDeArahParticipant
Also, are we forgetting that MTA was founded under his auspices? It’s a separate school, and it has a relatively robust gemara schedule compared to the standard MO day school joke olacesDecember 10, 2021 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm #2040189AviraDeArahParticipant
Rav saadya gaon writes explicitly that the Jewish people are a nation only by virtue of its Torah. Umikra malei hu – hayom hazeh bheyaysi li le’am. Today you are for me a nation. In the midbar when they received the Torah. Not in eretz yisroel after the war and division.
The reaction of the gedolei yisroel, notably rav hirsch (few wrote a lot on zionism) was that Judaism is a religion, not a nationality. Rav elchanan discussed it at length in his ikvesa demishicha, as did thw aforementioned bayos hazman, by rav Reuven grozovsky.
They were reform? How dare you accuse the gedolei olam of such a thing?December 10, 2021 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #2040229HaLeiViParticipant
“In our days…”
Blah blah. This is the all-too-common cliche of how we are so different than the past in our respect of Gedolim, because, after all, the Tanach has criticism of great people.
For some reason, nobody notices that no person in Tanach or Torah Shel Bal Peh criticizes Gedolim of previous generations. So, just like today, contemporaries and colleagues will critique and criticize, while those who follow retain the respect of the greatness and superiority of knowledge.
I think that derisive terms like these about the little bit of respect that that has survived among us, sets a person apart more than hashkafic ideas on study and culture.December 10, 2021 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #2040325
HaLeivi > no person in Tanach or Torah Shel Bal Peh criticizes Gedolim of previous generations. S
I agree that we need to show respect to all (acceptable) opinions in the past. The current machloket is on what is “acceptable”. Gemora filtered out those that were not. We are not counting various sects mentioned on Gemora as viable opinions. An extremist view (both on the left and on the right) is only to count your own group as acceptable. A more expansive view is to count anyone who is a great Talmid Chacham as acceptable as long as he affirms halakha (Acher was a learned person, but rejected halakha openly, as do many academics or reformim).
Another question is – where is boundary between generations. Sometimes it is imply teacher-student (R Akiva wins against chaverav, but not against his teacher), but more generally we have longer divisions – tannaim/amoraim/rishonim and there are arguments within them. When did the previous era ended? Maybe with Shoah and move to US and EY? Or with Mishna Berurah?December 10, 2021 3:20 pm at 3:20 pm #2040323
DY > kikayon wasn’t made by reshaim with the intent to destroy Yiddishkeit.
Hashem explains his moshal to Yonah – think of multitudes of people and even animals .. I am not sure would this include reshayim or are we saying that Ninve did teshuva and only therefore deserve being saved. Even in the second case, surely that current Israel has multitudes of observant Jews (if you count wider than a specific political group) that deserve protection.December 13, 2021 12:18 am at 12:18 am #2040987Johnny PicklesauceParticipant
I think we should be mechanech our children that the torah is not a story bookDecember 15, 2021 12:39 am at 12:39 am #2041827
Johnny > torah is not a story book
why such negativity towards children. Children learn from stories (better than from memorizing homework).
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