March 9, 2009 10:49 pm at 10:49 pm #1106529
why do you know this stuff, Jay??March 10, 2009 12:07 am at 12:07 am #1106530
10 is correctMarch 10, 2009 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #1106532
kiruvwife, where is divrei hayamim referred to as sefer hayichus?
Here’s one: which sefer of the Torah is referred to as “sefer hayashar”, and where is it referred to this way?March 11, 2009 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #1106533aussieboyParticipant
This is not a quiz type question but it is a question on Tanach.
Esav sold the bechorah to Yaakov. My question is how Yaakov able to accept this? There is a concept of not bieng allowed to sell something for more than 1/6 of its market value. So how could Yaakov accept it for more than Esav would be allowed to sell it, wouldnt he be allowing Esav to commit an aveirah? The bchorah was worth way more than a bowl of lint soup.March 13, 2009 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #1106534
I asked this before, but perhaps people did not see it
What were the names of Moshe Rabbeinu’s maternal half brothers?March 13, 2009 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #1106535
aussieboy, who determines value? to esav it wasn’t worth all that much. and what would you call “market value?” the concept of bechora and working in the bais hamikdash wasn’t exactly widespread.
Jay, yocheved was married to someone else before amram? i mean, other than being married to amram twice.March 15, 2009 2:30 am at 2:30 am #1106536
aussieboy- the Eben Ezra says that Yitzchok was poor therefore the lentil soup was something that had very high value. I don’t know the whole thing but you can look it up in the Eben Ezra.March 15, 2009 2:56 am at 2:56 am #1106537
Dr. Pepper noted that today (3.14) is pi day. Where in tanach does one find an approximation of pi?March 15, 2009 3:10 am at 3:10 am #1106538kapustaParticipant
aussieboy, I think the torah was given after, no such commandment at that point 🙂March 15, 2009 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #1106539anonymouse1079Participant
I heard this one awhile back and still don’t know the answer: There are 4 couples in Tanach where the husband and wife have the same initial. I’ve only figured out Na’ama/ Noach and Aharon HaKohein/ Elisheva. Anyone know the remaining 2?March 15, 2009 5:25 pm at 5:25 pm #1106540
Off the top of my head: Achav and Ezevel (I think both names begin with Alef).March 15, 2009 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #1106541
I think JM is right, and also suggest Achashvairosh and Esther as the fourth (in which case 3 of the 4 couples begin with aleph).
JM, I’m puzzled by your last question because, like moish, I didn’t know Yocheved was married to anyone but Amram.March 15, 2009 8:01 pm at 8:01 pm #1106542
If I am not mistaken, I think it is the Ran who comments about two character and says they are the maternal half-brothers of Moshe and Ahron. (Definately saw it, just in doubt whether it was the Ran)March 15, 2009 10:55 pm at 10:55 pm #1106543
Eldad and Meidad. Yocheved had them in between the two marriages to Amram.March 15, 2009 10:57 pm at 10:57 pm #1106544
Aussie: one of the meforshim, forgot who, says that the bowl of lentils was not the payment for the bechora, Yaakov paid cash in addition.March 15, 2009 11:20 pm at 11:20 pm #1106545
how can she go back to amram if she was married in between? or are you gonna tell me it’s because they didn’t get the torah yet?March 15, 2009 11:53 pm at 11:53 pm #1106546
moish, you got it!March 16, 2009 4:14 am at 4:14 am #1106547
time out. the reason amram and yocheved divorced was so that they don’t have any more kids because of the situation in mitzrayim. so what was accomplished by yocheved marrying another guy and have two more kids?
plus that means that she divorced the in between guy to go back to amram because of miriam’s nevuah.
and don’t forget that moshe and aron were only three years apart. and miriam was in between, no? so it sounds like the years were really tight there…
**edited**March 16, 2009 1:11 pm at 1:11 pm #1106548
yeah i’m not getting this…
anyone have any answers??March 16, 2009 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #1106549
PM, I would love your source that Yocheved was married in between marriages to Amram. As I too find it hard to believe. As we see, Amram was the Gadol Hador and all of Shevet Levy followed him (as evident by the small number of Leviim in the Chumash). Amram wasn’t alone in separating form his wife, all of shevet Levy did as their leader did.
Additionally, Yocheved was the daughter of Levy, would probably not differ from what the shevet was doing.
I always thought it was before she was married to Amram, or after (Amram died when moshe was 24).March 16, 2009 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #1106550
There is a machlokes regarding when Yocheved married Elizaphan bar Panach who became the nasi of Shevet Zevulun. The issues that everyone has with How could she marry someone in between her remarrying Amram are valid.
So, Rashi in I believe Rosh Hashana, says that she married him after Amram passed away.
Da’as Zekainim miBa’alei Tosfos is quoted as saying that Amram divorced Yocheved (his aunt) after the halachos of incest were taught and that’s when Elizaphan married her.
There are also those who hold that Eldad and Meidad were neither brothers nor related to Moshe.March 16, 2009 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #1106551
anon-sefer hayashar is Sefer Bereishis and is referred to as such I believe in Yehoshua and Shmuel. I think it’s because the Avos are referred to as yesharim…I think.March 16, 2009 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #1106552
kiruvwife, that is correct. Earlier you wrote that Divrei Hayamim is also called sefer hayichus. Where is it referred to this way?March 16, 2009 8:31 pm at 8:31 pm #1106553YW Moderator-39Member
In the repetition of the weekday Shmoneh Esrei, the Chazan will mention 2 pairs of Grandfather-Grandson
1. Avraham- Yaakov
What is the second pair?March 16, 2009 10:02 pm at 10:02 pm #1106554squeakParticipant
Adam, EnoshMarch 16, 2009 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #1106555YW Moderator-39Member
Well done Squeak!!March 16, 2009 10:41 pm at 10:41 pm #1106556
Who in Tanach if you spell their name backwards defines who they are? for example Noach is Chein because Noach matza chein beynei Hashem. I think ther are at least 2 more.March 17, 2009 2:58 am at 2:58 am #1106557
anon-i’m working on getting the source-I remember learning it though, so hopefully will come up with it soon.March 17, 2009 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #1106558
well, I haven’t had success in finding a credible source. I found it though in a book of questions without a source quoted, so l’maysa I can’t say with certainty that it is accurate. If I do find a more credible source I’ll post it bli neder.
Another question-Did Binyomin know if Yosef was alive? If yes, then why didn’t he share this information with Yaakov to relieve his suffering?March 17, 2009 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #1106559
he knew he wasn’t supposed to say. if hashem wanted yakov to know, he would have told him himself. (never mind that yakov didn’t get nevua the whole 22 years because he was in aveilus and nevua only comes when a person is b’simcha…)March 17, 2009 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #1106560
The question about names are their descriptions being the reverse.
I think one example is Yehuda’s son Er, who was Ra (evil) in the eyes of Hashem.March 17, 2009 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #1106561
Jay- Yup that’s one of them! There is still one more.March 17, 2009 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #1106562anonymouse1079Participant
kiruv wife- I don’t think Binyamin knew. There’s a Rashi that all 10 of his sons were named l’zecher Yosef in some manner. If he knew Yosef was alive, why would he have done this?March 17, 2009 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #1106563
i’m trying to remember when he knew. but it was for sure before the other brothers knew.March 17, 2009 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #1106564
moish, Yosef revealed himself to Binyamin before he revealed himself to the other brothers, but this was during their last trip to mitzrayim.
kiruvwife, I think I remember learning that Yitzchok knew that Yosef was alive, but was not able to reveal this to Yaakov because the brothers had sworn all to secrecy.March 17, 2009 10:48 pm at 10:48 pm #1106565
yitzchok?? i think you meant binyomin. yitzchok was long dead by the time of mechiras yosef.March 17, 2009 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #1106566
Sorry Moish, your math does not work out.
Yitzchak was 60 when Yaakov was born. Yitzchak died at 180. Yaakov was not yet 100 when Yoseph was born. Yoseph was sold at the age of 17.March 17, 2009 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #1106567
takka. but i thought yitzchok died before yakov returned to eretz canaan. or was that rivka? i thought both.March 18, 2009 12:11 am at 12:11 am #1106568squeakParticipant
It was Rivka. Yaacov met Rivka’s servant (Devora) on the way back, who expired upon telling him the news of his mother’s death. Yitzchak was alive when Yosef was sold, though the Torah makes no overt mention of this.March 18, 2009 12:16 am at 12:16 am #1106569
yeh if i remember correctly (which i obviously don’t) yitzchok isn’t mentioned at all after yakov goes back to canaan. i think it even says he died then – which i guess isn’t in the right place.
yikes! i can’t believe i don’t remember this basic stuffMarch 18, 2009 1:02 am at 1:02 am #1106570
Regarding Yitzchok-look in the Rashi in Parshas Vayeishev perek lamed zayin, pasuk lamed gimmel. Rashi quotes Bereishis Raba that Yitzchok knew, but did not reveal this information because he said “if HKB”H doesn’t want to reveal it then surely I can’t”. There is also and explanation that the brothers put a curse on whoever would reveal such information to their father and made Hashem part of that ban and curse. Binyomin however I believe was not part of that ban because he was not present.March 18, 2009 1:22 am at 1:22 am #1106571
I finally found my Ishei HaTanach! As PM & JM noted, according to targum Yehonason ben Uziel, Yocheved married Eltzafan ben Panach in between her two marriages to Amram. She then gave birth to Eldad & Medad, so they are Moshe’s older maternal half-brothers.March 18, 2009 1:36 am at 1:36 am #1106572
Missed the edit window–I wanted to add that was the targum on Bamidbar 11:26, where the nevuah of Eldad & Medad is described.March 18, 2009 1:37 am at 1:37 am #1106573
as moish01 already asked, so then what was the point of separating from Amram?? i thought so that more kids would not be born (just to be killed by Pharoah), but then marrying someone else & having sons defeats the purpose!March 18, 2009 1:42 am at 1:42 am #1106574
AOB-rashi holds that she married Eltzafan/Elitzaphan after Amram passed away, and some meforshim hold that Eldad and Medad weren’t even brothers themselves and not related to Moshe.March 18, 2009 1:47 am at 1:47 am #1106575
but does the meforash who said that they were born between explain why she separated from Amram in the first place?March 18, 2009 1:50 am at 1:50 am #1106576
AOB, keep in mind that Amram was the one who chose to separate, because Paroh would kill any baby boys. It was Miriam who told him that by doing so, he was worse than Paroh, since this meant no girls could be born either (which ultimately convinced him to remarry Yocheved). So the separation was not necessarily Yocheved’s choice, and the prospect of having more children wouldn’t stop her from remarrying (and indeed would motivate her to remarry). The question moish asked still stands: How was Yocheved permitted to remarry Amram if she married someone else in between? As kiruvwife noted, this targum is not a universally-held opinion, eilu v’eilu divrei elokim chayim.March 18, 2009 2:21 am at 2:21 am #1106577
kiruv, what you said about yitzchok is kinda hard. yaakov was in aveilus and didn’t get nevua the entire time. so even if hashem was willing to let him know, there’s no way he could have found out through nevua. i’m sure yitzchok knew that.
anon, but that goes back on an old argument. (i don’t remember who said it [maybe kiruvwife??] – it’s on the page before)
when amram and yocheved separated, the entire shevet levi copied them. yocheved was levi’s daughter. you think she would deviate? plus, what shevet was elztafan from?March 18, 2009 2:40 am at 2:40 am #1106578
moish, if yocheved thought amram was wrong for separating, because this meant neither boys nor girls would be born, then perhaps she would marry eltzafan to demonstrate that she disagreed with his reasoning. Just as he felt he had a responsibility, as the leader of the shevet, to demonstrate appropriate behavior for others, so perhaps did she. I am not saying this was necessarily the case (according to targum yehonason), just explaining how your argument can be turned around.
Also, regarding the issue of yocheved being forbidden to amram because she’d married in between, I seem to recall learning that this is not asur from the torah, but was made asur to discourage illicit behavior. If this is true, perhaps this would explain how amram would have been allowed to remarry yocheved even if she’d married someone else in between (especially since her motives would obviously have been l’shaim shamayim).March 18, 2009 2:48 am at 2:48 am #1106579
yea well any time we don’t have a reason for something that was done before the torah was given we just say “oh – before maamad har sini!”
and besides for all that, amram was one of the leaders. does anyone know what shevet eltzafan was from?
if it was levi, he wasn’t supposed to be getting married to anyone.
and either way – even if he wasn’t, who would marry the manhig’s divorcee?? kinda chutzpadik, no? (i don’t mean it the way it sounds, i just don’t know how to phrase it better)
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