December 31, 2012 1:27 am at 1:27 am #607629achosidParticipant
Anyone have any ideas how to handle this problem?
He is 17.December 31, 2012 2:42 am at 2:42 am #916921HaLeiViParticipant
It depends on you relationship. If he is a good boy that wants to please, you can have a heart to heart conversation. That should work, especially if it was the first time. For him it is fun and an experiment, while for you it is horrible, dangerous, and wrong. Give him the big picture.
There are other ways to react. If you don’t feel like he is in your hands, you might have to leave it. I hope he has a Rebbe that he and you trust. Speak to him.December 31, 2012 2:54 am at 2:54 am #916922americaisoverParticipant
take away some of his fun things and where is getting the money for such expensive things once that happens show him love and explain how foolish and UNCOOL this is, always show love.December 31, 2012 3:00 am at 3:00 am #916923welldressed007Participant
do not assume anything,talk with him, find out how what when where. Perhaps it was friends, again assume nothing and walk in with a positive attitude, try to engage and involve him in the decision making by asking his opinion, let him also be a part of the solution. If it comes even partially from him it will be a very compelling situation allowing for resolution with a minimum of hostility.
Good luck, tread very lightly, he is still your son no matter what.December 31, 2012 3:23 am at 3:23 am #916924147Participant
Remind him each & every single puff is new violation of & failure to observe the Mitzwa Asseh m’d’Orraisso of “vNishmartem Me’od lNafshoseichem”, and that smoking is tantamount to burning green paper, just that his precious Dollars are being disguised as cigar[ette]s.December 31, 2012 4:59 am at 4:59 am #916925
147: Sure, that’ll probably help. lolDecember 31, 2012 5:00 am at 5:00 am #916926shininaMember
From experience, the worse thing u could do is to be disgusted by it, he maybe just doing it to act out/fit in, by getting angry at him or treating him in a negative way, you’ll be burning down any connection that u may have w/ him. Then ull have a real problem.December 31, 2012 5:04 am at 5:04 am #916927
You need to figure out why he is smoking, and then address that.
If it is because his father smokes, then you should just give up.
If it as a way of rebelling, then it will certainly not help to get upset.
If it is to fit in with his chevrah, then you need to boost his self confidence so that he will feel comfortable without that.December 31, 2012 1:24 pm at 1:24 pm #916928
Some of the suggestions here make sense, others do not. Mine won’t add much to either category. But it is worth re-examining our attitudes toward smoking. They are generally cavalier. And perhaps that is more of a root of the problem, rather than the influences of friends, rebellion, etc.
In other threads in the CR, the discussions about smoking included the overwhelming majority of rabbonim and poskim who stated unequivocally that smoking (yes, even the single cigarette) is a clear issur mid’oraysa. It is just as permissible as eating pork, and we need to be reacting to any smoking with the same revulsion as chazzer. But we don’t. Every shul has a spot for drinking coffee, and most have locations outdoors where smokers can puff away. Either before or after tefilloh where they will face HKB”H who said the behavior of smoking is a violation of His ratzon. I marvel at the azus needed to do this.
Our frum magazines and papers have addressed this subject occasionally, and I have yet to hear of a single Yid that stopped smoking due to the articles in our press. I wondered about a Kol Koreh with signatures. I doubt there would be an effect. Probably because the same Rov who signed such an issur would allow a smoker to daven for the amud and have an aliyah in his beis hamedrash, which might not be the case had this smoker been mechalel Shabbos or eaten chazzer. We do not have a community consistent approach. So all the proclamations with signatures are worthless.
If someone has an answer for the adult population, we might stand a chance at fashioning an approach for our youth. But meanwhile, our kids see nothing wrong with it, not medically, not religiously. Our rantings about such consequences fall on deaf ears. If we don’t take ourselves seriously, why should they?December 31, 2012 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #916929tzarich_zivugMember
PBA: very wise post! though I would like to add:
The majority of people don’t want to hear anything or to be accused since they automatically switch off.
I once heard of a choshov Rebbi that came across a similar situation and waited 1 day before approaching the kid, and he told him the following:
” On my behalf, you know that I saw you XYZ … and you should know that I have no interest in publicizing this or letting anyone know about this. not your parents or your rebbi. just because I know you have the power to out grow and mature from the bahaviour.
On your behalf can you give me a little promise that you will try? “
And the rebbi said that by saying this he gave the kid also the comfort and trust that hes actions were not revealed to a community , and automatically hes heart was softened to listen.
And if im not mistaken Shlomom hamelech wrote in mishlei or maybe in the gemara they say not to tell someone off at the time that he sins / miss behaves. Aperson should wait a while
anyone remember the source?December 31, 2012 1:38 pm at 1:38 pm #916930YW Moderator-007Moderator
Take him for a visit to Sloan Kettering Hospital in Manhattan. Show him the skeletons walking the hallways attached to their chemo drips, and he will think twice.
Have a lung cancer patient speak to him for 2 minutes. It will change his mind for life.December 31, 2012 2:38 pm at 2:38 pm #916931zahavasdadParticipant
Put him a room and close off all vents, close windows close door and put towels under the door so no air escapes
then give him a pack of ciggarettes and tell him to smoke and not to leave until he does
this method makes over 30% of smokers quit right awayDecember 31, 2012 3:23 pm at 3:23 pm #916932
The suggestions for “shock therapy” by exposing the child to the diseases and deaths continue despite the fact that research has failed to demonstrate any effectiveness for the “scared straight” method. The kid who smokes for the social image and connection receives his positive reinforcement immediately, while the negative consequences are a mirage to him, the accumulation of thousands of cigarettes over a great deal of time. One is reality, the other a distant and imaginary concept. If you explore the thinking process of the kid who has begun smoking, these “shocking” ideas will make little sense. And, in fact, they don’t work.December 31, 2012 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #916933apushatayidParticipant
“Caught”. This implies said teenager tried to hide it and got caught anyway. If he had to hide, he knows someone feels it is wrong and did it anyway. This is an expression of his rebelliousness. Deal with why he feels the need to rebel against the rule and this will go away on its own. Do it sooner than later, because then he will become addicted and a whole new approach will be necessary.December 31, 2012 5:23 pm at 5:23 pm #916934HealthParticipant
The little I know -“In other threads in the CR, the discussions about smoking included the overwhelming majority of rabbonim and poskim who stated unequivocally that smoking (yes, even the single cigarette) is a clear issur mid’oraysa.”
While I agree with the rest of your post -your statement of “even the single cigarette) is a clear issur mid’oraysa” -I totally disagree with. When you make something totally Ossur, when it’s not, then it is much harder for people to comply. One pack a year is clearly not dangerous and probably even more than that. People tune out the message when it’s over the cliff.December 31, 2012 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #916935
I did NOT declare anything ossur as if I was a posek. I am simply quoting the countless poskim who have boldly stated their psak. I have a few sforim in front of me that discuss the issue, with haskomos from the leading poskim of this and the past generation. I would transcribe their statements if it wasn’t prohibitive to spend all that time typing. As if it matters, several add that the first cigarette is also an issur because it is the first of many, and this voluntary succumbing to an addiction is an additional issur. The Chasam Sofer addresses the role of issues of sakanah being even more strict than issur, and that compromises and cutting of corners (sometimes permitted in halacha) are not even negotiable. So if you have an agenda to declare smoking any less of an issur than it is, stand up and proclaim your position. I am standing with the greatest poskim of our generation (and some who have passed on) in declaring every cigarette an absolute issur mid’oraysa.December 31, 2012 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #916936ToiParticipant
boys will be boys. he’ll grow out of it.December 31, 2012 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #916937HealthParticipant
The little I know – You missed my point. I’m very against smoking and that first cig of the addiction is also Ossur. But if s/o smokes a pack or two a year and this lets him avoid having the Taavah for smoking as an addiction -this IMHO is fine!December 31, 2012 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #916938
boys will be boys. he’ll grow out of it.
That’s true. You rarely see an old man who smokes.December 31, 2012 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #916939
I will quote from Rav Dovid Cohen shlit”a whose memory is not just better, but predates mine by a little. Tobacco manufacturers quite some years ago packaged cigarettes in packs of 5, and distributed them free on street corners. Why? Even their own research indicated that addiction was established by just four cigarettes! One extra for good measure, and to cover the minority who might need it. That hooked the customers for life. The idea that allowing minimal smoking to avoid developing the taavah (read: addiction) is simply fantasy. Any tobacco company would gladly offer the two packs for free, as they know they have a lifetime client. Your humble opinion might sound nice, but in actuality, it is a myth.December 31, 2012 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #9169402scentsParticipant
This is what I tell people who ask me why I do not smoke. Lets visit Memorial hospital and talk to the patients.
Its just not worth it.December 31, 2012 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #916941welldressed007Participant
The ad in Israel to stop smoking went something like this:
Al tiftach peh la’sartan (Ivrit for cancer)
or Cancer cures smoking permanently.
Either way smoking is not healthy.December 31, 2012 8:55 pm at 8:55 pm #916942ToiParticipant
truth is, i shouldve elaborated. if this kid is in yeshiva, itll probably pass. if hes chiller type or otd, figure out whats up.January 1, 2013 7:26 pm at 7:26 pm #916943Torah613TorahParticipant
I have no idea what to do with teenage boys period, but I believe that you can’t make them do anything. Just like you can’t make teenage girls do anything.January 1, 2013 7:35 pm at 7:35 pm #916945N.GMember
Show him a old man that smokes and how much he smells.January 1, 2013 7:41 pm at 7:41 pm #916946TheGoqParticipant
I smoked once in high school i was not caught and had no desire to try it again.January 2, 2013 3:09 am at 3:09 am #916947yankdownunderMember
007 moderator I like your response, because it is based in practical reality. If one really cares/values/loves someone, then sometimes extreme measures are called for. Visiting an Oncology ward in a hospital and speaking to lung cancer patient and an oncologist, may be what is needed to help stop this destructive habit. Alternatively I would suggest that achosid invest in a juicer, and start(giving the fruit or vegetable juice to the seventeen year old)juicing for the health. Let the natural goodness of real concentrated foods help restore the damage done from smoking. As the father of medicine said “Let Food Be Your Medicine”.
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