Teimanim With Multiple Wives

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  • #1526603

    Milhouse
    Participant

    Joseph, I have never seen a reliable source saying that the expiration date was after 1000 years. The only two opinions I’m aware of are that it expired in 5000 and continues to this day merely as a minhag, or that there was no expiration date. But my point is that this machlokes can only exist because NOBODY KNOWS, because the original text does not exist, and did not exist even in the Rishonim’s day. So the claim that the original text gives a reason to do with conforming to Xian practice CANNOT be true.

    #1526810

    yitzchakmba
    Participant

    Hi Avi K, I have seen this faulty logic before the absence of discussion does not mean absence of them having more than one wife. In a culture and environment where it is normal to have more than one wife it’s not even a Halachic discussion point which is why we dont see it discussed at all virtually. It’s only when Judaism is in conflict with the Churches war against Polygany in the late 10th century and beyond that this is even discussed. The Tenach has hundreds of references and inferrred Polygounous families especially if you read through NaK only a few are troublesome as we know that’s for us to learn and understand how not to do Polygany. Additionally the Culture of Polygany was a normal part of the Jewish landscape for non European Jews until the Modern State of Israel, Polygany is very pragmatic solution to many Marriage and Halachic issues for family situations, however because of the West’s Catholic/ Protestant bias against Polygany it’s an Issue. As an ex Catholic boy I am more than familiar with this issue in fact the truth of Marriage laws of HaShem in contrast to what I learnt and was raised in as a “good catholic boy” was one of that caused me to dump xtianity and eventually choose to become Jewish. Its sad to see that Polygany is disparaged and constantly portrayed as bad when in fact it’s a very Holy and has many Tikun aspects to it. The GRA is quoted as saying that if he was to stop learning Torah he would first go from Town to Town to get the Ban of Rebenu Gershon overturned, because he said that it would lead to many more Jewish souls being born and that in turn would hasten the coming of Mashiach.

    #1526946

    Avi K
    Participant

    Yitz,
    1. Hundreds? I dispute that.
    2. The only polygamous Tanna was Rabbi Tarfon – and as the number given is 300 it could be that they were only pro forma marriages so that they could eat terumot and maaserot as he was a cohen. In fact, Chazal call a co-wife a tzaara.
    3. One can also say that polygamy among Sephardim (which was actually very uncommon) was influenced by Islam.

    #1526952

    “Joseph, I have never seen a reliable source saying that the expiration date was after 1000 years”
    R’ Akiva Eger may something like that

    #1527782

    ๐Ÿ‘‘RebYidd23
    Participant

    If a society has 100 men and 101 women, should that woman remain single?

    #1527786

    Joseph
    Participant

    Avi, the Gemora doesn’t tell us who the wives are for most Tanaaim. It’s not telling us one way or another is no indication that any particular Tanna did or didn’t have more than one wife simultaneously.

    #1527818

    Avi K
    Participant

    RY, maybe she should look into other societies. Today with Internet shidduch sites it is not a problem.

    Joseph,The Gemara calls a co-wife a tzaara. Chazal also say (Tanhuma Ki Tetzeh 1)

    ื›ื™ ืชืฆื ืœืžืœื—ืžื” โ€“ ืฉื ื• ืจื‘ื•ืชื™ื ื•: ืžืฆื•ื” ื’ื•ืจืจืช ืžืฆื•ื” ื•ืขื‘ื™ืจื” ื’ื•ืจืจืช ืขื‘ื™ืจื”.

    ื•ืจืื™ืช ื‘ืฉื‘ื™ื” ื•ื’ื•’ ื•ื’ืœื—ื” ืืช ืจืืฉื” ื•ืขืฉืชื” ืืช ืฆืคืจื ื™ื” โ€“ ื›ื“ื™ ืฉืœื ืชืžืฆื ื—ืŸ ื‘ืขื™ื ื™ืš. ืžื” ื›ืชื™ื‘ ื‘ืชืจื™ื”? ื›ื™ ืชื”ื™ื™ืŸ ืœืื™ืฉ ืฉืชื™ ื ืฉื™ื ื•ื’ื•’. ืฉืชื™ื ื‘ื‘ื™ืช โ€“ ืžืจื™ื‘ื” ื‘ื‘ื™ืช, ื•ืœื ืขื•ื“, ืื—ืช ืื”ื•ื‘ื” ื•ืื—ืช ืฉื ื•ืื”, ืื• ืฉืชื™ื”ืŸ ืฉื ื•ืื•ืช. ืžื” ื›ืชื™ื‘ ืื—ืจื™ื•? ื›ื™ ื™ื”ื™ื” ืœืื™ืฉ ื‘ืŸ ืกื•ืจืจ ื•ืžื•ืจื”. ื›ืœ ืžืืŸ ื“ื ืกื™ื‘ ื™ืคืช ืชืืจ โ€“ ื ืคื™ืง ืžื™ื ื™ื™ื”ื• ื‘ืŸ ืกื•ืจืจ ื•ืžื•ืจื”, ืฉื›ืŸ ื›ืชื‘ ื‘ื“ื•ื“, ืขืœ ืฉื—ืžื“ ืžืขื›ื” ื‘ืช ืชืœืžื™ ืžืœืš ื’ืฉื•ืจ ื‘ืฆืืชื• ืœืžืœื—ืžื” โ€“ ื™ืฆื ืžืžื ื• ืื‘ืฉืœื•ื, ืฉื‘ืงืฉ ืœื”ืจื’ื•, ื•ืฉื›ื‘ ืขื ืขืฉืจ ืคื™ืœื’ืฉื™ื• ืœืขื™ื ื™ ื›ืœ ื™ืฉืจืืœ ื•ืœืขื™ื ื™ ื”ืฉืžืฉ, ื•ืขืœ ื™ื“ื• ื ื”ืจื’ื• ืžื™ืฉืจืืœ ื›ืžื” ืจื‘ื‘ื•ืช, ื•ืขืฉื” ืžื—ืœื•ืงืช ื‘ื™ืฉืจืืœ, ื•ื ื”ืจื’ ืฉืžืขื™ ื‘ืŸ ื’ืจื ื•ืฉื‘ืข ื‘ืŸ ื‘ื›ืจื™ ื•ืื—ื™ืชื•ืคืœ, ื•ืœืžืคื™ื‘ืฉืช ื•ืœืื™ืฉ ื‘ืฉืช ื”ืจื’, ื•ื”ืฉืœื™ื˜ ืฆื™ื‘ื ืขืœ ื›ืœ ื‘ื™ืช ืฉืื•ืœ.

    #1527831

    Joseph
    Participant

    Avi, that doesn’t refute my last point which refuted your point about the number of Tanaaim who had multiple wives.

    #1527996

    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph, I think that they would have been very surprised to be called Yidden. In any case, one cannot learn from what was done there. They also married off pre-pubescent girls whose fathers died (in order to keep them from being given to Moslem families by the authorities). This was also why boys married at very young ages. Rav Kapach was married at fourteen because he had been orphaned several years earlier and was thus in danger (BTW, he only had one wife).

    #1528461

    Joseph
    Participant

    Avi, all three of my Teimani friend’s wives disagree with you.

    #1528545

    Avi K
    Participant

    Joseph, why not marry another one? Then you can have mothers-in-law on all sides telling you how much you are not good enough for their daughters.

    BTW, two women argued over whose daughter got the shidduch. The suggested dividing the boy into two. One mother agreed and the other said not to hurt him. The first woman was ruled the real mother-in-law.

    #1531777

    yitzchakmba
    Participant

    Joseph you are a lucky man wish I could have such mazal!

    #1531794

    Joseph
    Participant

    Why, thank you, Yitzchak. I feel very blessed. I wish you the best of mazal in this inyan. (Though I obviously only advocate this for non-Ashkenazim, in deference to the Ashkenazic takana, unless the Ashkenazic Gedolim decide to start permitting it again.)

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