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Submitted to YWN via email:
Dear YWN Editor,
Thanks for the venting space, YWN. I feel better already.
Glad you feel better. Now back to your pritzus. Advising you that its wrong is the right thing to do.
ujm, I don’t think that was helpful. Even if the original poster’s clothing is not tznius (which isn’t clear to me from the letter), how does gossiping about her help? It’s especially inappropriate for men to be discussing the way she dresses; in fact, I’d call that pritzus.
To the letter writer:
I’m sorry you are in such a difficult situation. Sometimes people are just nasty to those who are different. I used to live in a smaller frum community where many people judged me because of my job. I held a regular white-collar job, and dressed much like the other women in my community (the only difference was that my clothes were older & I couldn’t afford a shaitel), but because I wasn’t a teacher or nurse or secretary (all perfectly honorable jobs that happened not to suit my situation) I was criticized & insulted. People didn’t care that my husband was attending school at that time & earning little or no income.
I’d never been the sort of person to tell other people how to live their lives, or to discuss other people, mostly because I’m trying to live my own life as well as I can. However, being at the receiving end of so much criticism has made me less likely to judge other people, even to myself. Now B”H I live in another larger community; I don’t work outside the home now, but my friends wouldn’t judge me if I did.
I didn’t mean to hijack this just to talk about myself, but rather to say that I really sympathize with your situation. I also wanted to add that your community may not be as homogeneous as it seems. It may be possible to find friends who won’t judge you by your clothes. If you have young children, you may be able to meet other people at the park or a children’s museum. If you don’t, a chessed group may be a good way to find friends.
Your modern dressing patterns are likely wrong according to halacha. People would like to get you to dress appropriately but do not know how to go about it. That is why their behavior is inappropriate. They must be taught how to go about it. You can fix them, or you can fix yourself. Similarly, they can fix themselves or they can fix you. Both seem to be barking up the wrong tree.
I can relate to what you wrote. I wrote something in the coffee room about teens off the derech and the way they are treated too because of the way they look and dress. I don’t know why people feel if they dress tzinut that they can forget about the other mitzvot of treating people with respect. A true religious person has to not only dress the part but also be a mentch.
Some people have this problem of judging a person solely on how they look. First of all, NONE of us are in the position to judge another. If you are not Hashem, then keep your judgements to yourself, for only Hashem and that individual knows the “whole” story behind what the eyes can see. If someone doesn’t approve of another persons “dress code,” take your two cents and give it to tziddakah, for no one likes to be criticized, it can be very embarrassing , and a turn off to orthodoxy. Stop assuming the worst of people. Everyone is so quick to get on another individuals so called flaws, but cannot handle taking responsibility of their own flaws. I’m sure there are going to be people here who say that it’s another Jew’s responsibility to alert the person, but did you ever think of the consequences of doing so? If you aren’t their Rabbi, friend, or family member, you can embarrass them, which in turn means you are killing them, so what’s worse, your opinion of “un tziusdik” or murder?
To all those who gave this young woman chizuk – yasher Koach. You are compassionate and caring Jews. To the ones here who criticized her without even having seen her (so they are really in absolutely no position to judge whether or not she dresses b’tznius, assuming they were right to be judging anyone, to begin with), I say that you are the type of people who actually end up being marchik instead of mekareiv. Your elitism, rather than being inclusionary, is misguided and misplaced. I sometimes wonder what haKadosh Boruch Hu is thinking when He hears this woman cry at night. I cannot presume to speak for Him, but I am thinking that it is possible He might be none too pleased at the onaas devarim that some people are committing, which is probably far more serious than her code of dress issues.
Why not consider strengthening (everyone can) your Avodas Hashem?
Are ppl openly criticising you and speaking badly about you? Like do u know for a fact?
The reason i’m asking is cuz’ ppl usually don’t mean to be mean or critical. I don’t know ur community and so i’m not judging.
But you seem to KNOW that u r different than ur community, so perhaps it’s ur conscience that makes u feel that others are looking down at you?
I truly hope u don’t take this in a bad way, but maybe it’s some food for thought.
well, my post here dovetails with the one I started abut shloimele zz’l (carlebach).I called him a zaddik because he was mekarev EVERYONE,even the shaygatz who smoked pot-but- today-is a rosh yeshiva somewhere. His derech of ahavas yisroel was the right one and the elitism shown by some bnai yeshiva is disgusting. Eli hakohen also thought that chanah was drunk and yet, she ended up being the mother of shmuel hanovi. Who are you, critics, to decide who dresses “zniusdik” and who is righteous in the Almighty’s eyes? UJM, I hope that your children never give you agmas nefesh . I am not sure you deserve to have a serene life afer your ignoble comments.
Well, ujm, I reread the writer’s letter carefully. She dresses, I quote, “more modern”. Your Pavlovian response that immediately translated “more modern” to “pritzus” is disgusting.
To the letter writer,
Be comforted by the fact that on the day of judgement, the Holy Judge Yishtabach Shemo will not be ujm.
You’re welcome I see this thread seems more interesting
I don’t think this thread is allowed to be interesting as we know its against Jewish halacha law to take interest (ribbis) in anything
Can you believe it? George W. Bush was President of the United States when the above discussion transpired.
Now the thread is mangled, with the OP 90% truncated due to failed CR “upgrades” over the years. But fear not tecno-warriors; you can still find the full original OP in the Wayback Machine.
Wow. Was I born yet then?!?
Back then, UJM was considered a “progressive” and BHO had just stolen the election from Arizona Senator John McCain by using a secret computer program to change 365 electoral votes to the junior senator from Illinois.
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