May 5, 2010 1:42 pm at 1:42 pm #591628
There is a new trend that has invaded even the small Jewish communities.
Schools have set up an ‘anonymous’ Vaad who can decide who they accept to their school.
Parents who receive a negative reply, have no-one to talk to and are usually not even given a reason as to why their kids have not been accepted into the school.
The Principals and Administration take no reponsibility and blame their ‘Vaad’, while no one knows who are the people who are making such important decisions.
Don’t parent’s deserve to know why their kids were not accepted in school, and don’t they have a right to appeal a decision???May 5, 2010 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #684623chesednameParticipant
the main problem with schools is, when it comes to collecting money, they say it’s a community school, and should we turn parents that have no money away?
on the other hand question something they do, they say it’s a private school and if you don’t like it leave, how about asking to see the books? if it’s a community school we should be able to do so, or like it was posted here, if there is a vaad, who is on it? what factors go into the decision?May 5, 2010 5:06 pm at 5:06 pm #684624
Ask any person who has once been on a school Vaad and has left – they will tell you they left because it is so corrupted.
Families who are not suitable get in because of the money they promise, and sometimes good families are not accepted because the Vaad know that they will request discounts on tuition.
So in the end its all about $$$$$$.
And about politics.
If you belong to a Chassidus that has a school, no other school will accept your kids, they will tell you – go to your Chassidus. What happens if that school is very far or overcrowded or not suitable?
The State schools also have criteria, but they publicise their requirements so people can know in advance whether they are suitable and have a chance of being accepted. They also have an appeal committee so people can appeal a decision.May 5, 2010 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #684625WolfishMusingsParticipant
Don’t parent’s deserve to know why their kids were not accepted in school, and don’t they have a right to appeal a decision???
Assuming it’s an entirely private school, the answer to your questions are as follows:
— Do you deserve to know why your kids aren’t accepted? Yes, you deserve to know. But we don’t always get what we deserve.
— Do you have the right to appeal? No, you don’t. The school is free to set up whatever rules they like.
That being said, if a school is showing you that they treat potential customers this badly, you’re probably better off that you weren’t accepted.
The WolfMay 5, 2010 5:47 pm at 5:47 pm #684626anonymrsParticipant
i have only tried one time to get a child into school, so i may be completely ignorant of the process, so please help me out here a little bit. why is anyone besides the principal/dean/menahel/menaheles accepting or rejecting students? i dont think i would even APPLY to such a school for my children.May 5, 2010 9:23 pm at 9:23 pm #684627
Wolf and Skinnym are right:
I’ll 2nd Wolf’s comment. Why would you want to go to a school that turned you down?
While I was never on a Vaad, a friend of mine was. And 2 other friends were trying to get into the school friend A was a Vaad memeber.
Both B and C had great kids, but the reason they got turned down was the HS the mothers went to (no, I’m not kidding)
In the end, both kids went to different schools (and are doing quite nicely, I might add). And the Vaad friend? He dropped off the board because he could not stomach the hypocracy (people that were truly not suitable for the school got waved in because of pull)
And we wonder why today’s kids have such an attitude problem.May 5, 2010 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #684628
Anon Mrs –
But theory goes out the window when the board has to rubber-stamp an application from a child that is really not going to cooperate (rampant chutzpha, for which he was kicked out of the previous school) or abide by school rules (school says no logo polo shirts in 7 grade, and the applicant shows up the interview in a Tommy Hilfiger polo), yet the Vaad gets a call from the top donor, because the applicant is in the same shul / summer resort (I would call in a bungalow colony, but folks with that much clout hardly live in what you would call a bungalow).May 6, 2010 1:05 am at 1:05 am #684629anonymrsParticipant
i guess i hear the theory, but again, why would a principal, etc. not have the final say? i would not want to send my child(ren) to a school where someone ELSE was making the decision. my children are my most precious possession, and i wont trust their education to just anyone. the only time i would consider sending my children to a school that had a vaad is if the members are known to the public and any child who is turned down is given a reason.May 6, 2010 2:14 pm at 2:14 pm #684630
The heimish schools are terribly overcorwded and they really cannot accept everyone.
By creating an anonymous Vaad they do not have to answer to anyone why certain kids were rejected. So instead of having a basic criteria as to who they accept, they think they have the right to just ‘pick and choose’ without answering to anyone.
Their are many girls’ schools that will not accept kids whose mothers didn’t learn at their school – which is totally ridiculous.
Boys schools who won’t accept kids who dont wear the right amount of sections in their yarmulke……
And what happens to the kids who stay without a school?
We’re talking about 3 yr olds who have no school to go to at the start of the new year………May 6, 2010 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #684631
Now you know why everyone must have a Rav. Your Rav is not just someone who answers your shailos or guides your life in hashkafa matters; your Rav is with you in all of life’s complications and decisions. Your Rav is your advocate when it comes to matters beyond your capacity; such as dealing with yeshivas and all matters relating to chinuch.
EDITEDMay 6, 2010 6:34 pm at 6:34 pm #684632
The problem is, while my Rov / Rebbe is the person whom I and my famlily turn to for life’s complicated choices, he has very little impact on the person on the vaad, if that person is not from my kehilla.
For the most part, no one stays home beacuse no school will take them. True, the school that says yes may not be 1st choice, but in the end, you and your child and succeed in the school that you do settle on. Much like a shidduch, it may not meet every criteria, but as long as its in the ballpark, you can make a good go of it. And like a shiduch, sometimes they get derailed becuase of a meddling outsider. But that does not mean the game is over; it just means you go to plan B and make it as good as(if not better than) plan A. That’s where syata d’shmaya comes into the picture.May 7, 2010 1:31 am at 1:31 am #684633
BP Totty – “while my Rov / Rebbe is the person whom I and my famlily turn to for life’s complicated choices, he has very little impact on the person on the vaad, if that person is not from my kehilla. “.
You’re missing out on the essence of a Rav. A Rav has one major responsibility, and that is to do Chesed; everything else is extra. In addition, there can be no greater shaila to a Rav than in which Yeshiva to educate your child, and don’t sell your Rav short; he will very much become involved if he feels a particular yeshiva is the best for your child.May 12, 2010 6:37 pm at 6:37 pm #684634
Sorry Cherry I missed this last reply (seeing as how the tuition thread has been priority #1 for the last few days)
You are right, my Rov would LOVE to help me and everyone that walks thru his door. But would it be fair of me to ask him to speak on my behalf to a vaad member that will not listen (or worse, be mevazeh) to him?
Sad to say, but that’s what happens sometimes. So to protect his kovod, I would not even ask him to stick his neck out. Unfortunatly, the shul / rebbe I’m aligned with does not have a school that is suitable for my boys, so I had no choice but to go out of the box and deal with the vaad on my own. Luckily, I passed. Not sure what i would have done if I failed. (I guess I would go with school B, but fortunalty it didn’t come to that.
One thing is clear though; from your comment, its pretty much a sure bet you have a terrific realationship with your rov / rebbe and are machshiv torah authority in general. Lucky for us your a CR member to boot!May 12, 2010 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #684635
Thank you for your kind words, but I was very serious in terms of your Rav suggesting the right school for your child. I think many times we choose a school for the wrong reasons and may regret it after the damage has been done.May 14, 2010 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #684636
The problem with that is, my rov understands my / my familys hashkofoh needs, he is not up to date on secular education, which my boys also need.
Plus the fact that today’s kids attitues / outlooks are a blend of both parents, both sets of grandparents, numberous rebbeim, camp, ect.
My Rov’s outlook represents just one of the many influneces my boys are exposed to, so to say, “we’ll go with this choice” just because the Rebbe / Rov said so, takes more than we can muster.
That said, when it came down to 2 choices (after having done our homework) the Rebbe (not the Rov) made the decision. Both had its merits, but only one could be the winner.. and he picked it.
So I guess that the answer is, we rely on the Rebbe’s / Rov’s judgement when its not cut and dry, but for the most part choices are arrived at, based on the decision-making skills we (me, Mrs, kids) have developed as a result of listenoing / watching how the gedolim in our lives reached conclusins on similar situation.
Not an exact science, but it works for usMay 14, 2010 10:53 pm at 10:53 pm #684637
Adom karove l’atzmo; it’s hard to be totally objective when it comes to certain decisions.
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