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I believe that there are many people here who identify as “Chassidim” or “Chassidish” or something like that.
In my mind, this means that their life has been effected in some way by a revolution started by the Ba’al Shem Tov a few hundred years ago.
I am very curious to know how different people feel about this:
How would your Yiddishkeit or life in general have been different if not for the Ba’al Shem Tov?
What does it mean to you that you are a Chassid?
I would love to hear a variety of perspectives about this. Please share your personal perspective.The question that “yedl” asked about the Baal Shem Tov
could also be asked about: Rabbi Yisroel Salanter ZTL ZYA,
the Chafetz Chaim ZTL ZYA, Rabbi Moshe Feinstein ZTL ZYA,
and every Rishon, and every Acharon and every Rosh HaYeshivah.the holy Baal Shem Tov didn’t do anything novel, chas v’shulem, rather he restored parts of avodas Hashem to klal yisroel.
being a student of the Baal Shem Tov just being a student of Moshe Rebaini.Beautiful question. I’ll share my perspective as someone whose life has been deeply shaped by Chassidus.
Without the Ba’al Shem Tov, my Yiddishkeit would likely be much more about performance and much less about connection. The revolution he started wasn’t just new practices – it was democratizing access to Hashem. Before him, deep spiritual connection often felt reserved for the greatest talmidei chachamim. He taught that a simple Jew davening with kavanah or saying Tehillim with a broken heart can reach incredible heights. That changes everything about how I approach avodas Hashem daily.What being a Chassid means to me: It means believing that Hashem wants my heart more than my perfection. It means that when I struggle – whether with learning, davening, or yes, even with the yetzer hara – the struggle itself has value when done with sincerity. It means seeing every moment, every interaction, every challenge as an opportunity for dveikus. The Chassidishe approach taught me that falling and getting back up with renewed determination is sometimes greater than never falling at all.
It also means having a derech in avodas Hashem – the specific teachings, niggunim, and approach of my Rebbe and his Rebbe before him. There’s something powerful about being part of a chain going back generations, each link adding depth and understanding.
Practically: Without Chassidus, I don’t know if I would have survived my own struggles. The emphasis on joy in serving Hashem, on the preciousness of every Yid regardless of their level, on the power of a good resolution even after falling – these ideas literally saved my Yiddishkeit during dark times.I’d like to give my prespective on what being a חסיד means to me as im a בעל תשובה
Throughout my life I’ve wanted to do something with yiddishkeit even when I wasn’t a following anything
I would see other jews and many of them would be chasidim and sometimes litvaks and I would wonder why weren’t we (for context my family comes from a secular ex soviet background) like that? we’re jewish after all, and the same respond was “we aren’t like that”, or “how about we take away all your stuff on saturdays” and some things that would make yiddishkeit seem scary or weird or “restricting” when in reality its not like that, but younger me didn’t realize that. some time passed and I didn’t care at all for many things when it came to religion, but a long time back I got in contact with the right people and I went from learning some things but not fully implimenting, to trying my best to serve השם with a slow and healthy growth.
Im specifically a breslover chassid of yaakov meir shechter, but I live in america, some ask me how am I a chassid of his if i barely see him or never really met him and it can be very discouraging at times especially because right now im not in a chasidishe enviorment, but part of being a chassid is getting back up and not letting little things bother you, and also pulling yourself back up when you fall down which has happened often more in my earlier years but not as much now, but even when it does, its a test from HKB”H to see how we truly love and fear him. Being a chassid and being within the enviorment when I can has taught me to yearn for HaShem and serve him with joy and happiness, albeit with a fear of HaShem as well, it’s very important to have both love and fear, and showing that through our actions and how we grow. I connect with yaakov meir shechter (and other tzadikim, I chose to be a chassid of yaakov meir shechter as the community and hashkafa speaks to me the most.) through their teachings, though I’ve met other rebbes and try to surround myself among other chasidim when I can. I’ve been through all parts of the jewish world, litvish, sephardic and chasidish and from those experiences I’ve found my way to where I am now, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life and I want to grow and serve HKB”H to the best of my ability even if it is slow and I don’t know as much as others. sometimes I wish thing would just appear in my mind and have it be easier to understand certain things like what im learning or some other things, someone once asked me “why do you do this if its going to be such a hard life for you?” and I respond back saying if it was easy, it wouldnt be avodah, afterall yiddishkeit is avodas HaShem. Some people like to bring up marriage as an example and say “you should be THIS way instead it’d be easier, you won’t make it this way” “you aren’t this, THIS is the right way”, but I don’t let it get to me, I know if I do HaShem right he’ll do the same back, and even if he doesn’t, I serve HaShem because I want to, thats what we all (or all should strive to) do, we do things not JUST because we have to but because we WANT to, being a chassid is doing 2x more than what is required of us, because our entire lives as not just chasidim, but yidn, our entire existence is to serve HaShem, and also if we can serve him with joy and happiness. my favorite example of doing 2x more is that we are told we shouldn’t and can’t be depressed or angry, so what do we do? we do the exact OPPOSITE of being angry and depressed, we do things to make ourselves happy AND spread the joy through serving HaShem with others. joy destroys the yetzer Hara and makes us want to do mitzvos. At times it’s easier said than done and when we struggle with things it can get the best of us sometimes, but we have to push ourselves out of the hole of sadness and instead remind ourselves that we are yidn, that in itself should fill us with joy and happiness and the ratzon to connect with the HKB”H through learning and studying and whatever mitzvos we can. Without the teachings of the baal shem tov, I don’t know where I would be, there is something about the chasidish lifestyle that brings this feeling out of me that I don’t think I could find among other circles. that doesnt mean im putting down anyone else, this is just the way I serve HKB”H. theres a reason why theres so different minhagim like ashkenazi sefardi chasidish, and the many many sub minhagim among these categories, it’s because theyre all ways to serve HaShem and specifically catered for each yid to find his way in serving HaShem. Being chasidish is my way.Ask the Troller Rebbe
commonsaychel – This is actually one of a minority of threads on this website that sincerely asks a serious question and generates meaningful discussion. The trolls already have their hands full on the other threads…
The essence of the “Chiddush” of the Baal Shem Tov, as described in the works of his Talmidim, is the living, tangible Emunah that Hashem is ואתה מחיה את כולם – that nothing in the Universe has any independent existence except from the דבר השם, Who continuously creates and gives “life” to every last detail, with no place or situation being “empty” of Him. Everything else that the Baal Shem Tov taught derives from this Emunah. If Hashem is always accessible to everyone, big or small, then everyone can have a direct personal connection to Him, especially by speaking to Him in their own words. The great Tzadikim and Talmidei Chachamim can “lower themselves” to have a true Kesher with the “Poshute Yidden”, and the Poshute Yidden can have a true Kesher with the Tzadikim, because Hashem is equally interested in both groups, and no one is “far” from Him. If Hashem is accessible from any “place” or “matzav”, then no Neshoma is ever truly “lost”, and no situation is ever truly hopeless. On a practical level, this translates into a Judaism that isn’t just about “keeping score” of Mitzvos or aveiros, but each Mitzvah is a כלי to connect us to Hashem, and each aveirah is the opposite ח״ו. Learning Torah brings us into “the Mind of Hashem” כביכול, to think the way He “thinks”.
If you want to see more of what the Baal Shem Tov actually said and taught, there are a number of excellent (elucidated and annotated) recent printings of ספר בעל שם טוב על התורה and כתר שם טוב, which are collections of the teachings of the Baal Shem Tov culled from the works of his close Talmidim. (The Baal Shem Tov himself didn’t write down his teachings in a Sefer, but we have hundreds of his teachings recorded in the Sefarim of his Talmid Rebbe Yaakov Yosef Hakohen of Pollonoeh most especially תולדות יעקב יוסף, his grandson Rebbe Ephraim of Sadylkov the author of דגל מחנה אפרים, and his Talmid Rebbe Dov Ber the Maggid of Mezeritch.)
To say that Hashem wants “my heart more than my perfection” is not chassidus. It’s modern day thinking. HaShem wants your perfection (shleimus) but he also understands that we don’t always live up to that standard and is, therefore, forgiving so long as we are L’Shem Shamayim. To say “HaShem wants the heart” is NOT a Kula; it’s a Chumrah.
@yedl, you asked:
<blocktext>which parts of “Moshe Rebaini”s Torah do you feel like you would not have in your life without the Ba’al Shem Tov?</blocktext>I don’t know since I never lived without the “Toras Baal Shem”. Also, I find it strange to frame the question on “how I feel” about the Torah that was restored to us. That’s like asking me how many of my relatives “do I feel” survived the Holocaust. Huh?
The reality is that there is almost no such thing as a frim Jew who is NOT a student of the Baal Shem Tov today. To not be a chussid today is specifically a statement of rejection of that part of Torah, and as such probably kefira if such a stance even exists anywhere.
If your question is about modern day “chassidim” and “chassidis”, I would say that this is a very different question with a very different answer and has as much to do with being students of the Baal Shem Tov as much as being students of the Holy Ari z”l or students of the Chozeh of Liblin zy”a.
To yedl
Even though I feel much closer to the Gaon than the Besht, in fact my origins are in Chassidus since all of my grandparents were Galicianer Chassidim. Growing up, my family wasn’t fully frum and so our Chassidic origins weren’t discussed, but it became a subject as I got older. A certain Rabbi told me that my paternal grandmother was Rav Meir Premishlan’s granddaughter. This made sense because my Bobbi had a brother named Meir. In any case, I’ll share a story. About 30 years ago I had an idea for a Dvar Torah on Parshas Yisro. I told it over to a Rabbi that I’m friendly with and he said it sounds familiar. Later that day he told me that Rav Meir Premishlan had said the same thing(his idea was much deeper than mine but I was close.) That Rabbi didn’t know that I might be related to him. I’d like to believe that I am an einekel, but I never checked because I’d be disappointed if it isn’t so. I’m very fond of Chasidishe Torah but not so much for Chassidic maasehs. Thanks for starting this thread. It’s a nice idea.
Chassidus as the Besht taught it doesn’t really exist today. It’s long gone.
The Gra held that chassidus was incompatible with Judaism, and he fought strongly against it.
The Besht definitely instituted new teachings. He claimed that he went up to Shamayim, and that Achiya haShiloni taught him these new things. But we have a rule, “Torah lo baShamayim he”, so even if this was true, we shouldn’t be following those teachings.So what exists today? Something I like to call “feel good Judaism”. People are all about getting the warm fuzzy feeling that comes with doing something you enjoy.
For example – having dancing while davening Kabbalas Shabbos. Never mind that it states pretty clearly that dancing is assur on Shabbos!
Davening after zman Krias Shema – I find that most chassidish shuls make no effort at all to make the zman.Koifer: the thought that Hashem wants “my heart more than my perfection” is not modern thinking, but it is also not chassidus. It’s mentioned in Nach – I believe once was the Haftorah a few weeks ago. Hashem said that people brought korbanos, without understanding the point behind them, and said they weren’t desirable at all – that the meaning behind it is more important.
That doesn’t mean that the actions aren’t important at all. They obviously are. If the Torah says to do something, we do it as best we can. But it’s better to do it imperfectly with the proper feeling than to do it perfectly with no feeling at all.Yedl comes across as a neo-Chasidus follower. Maybe he can tell us who his Rebbe is. Is it the Wodmere Rebbe, Reb Moishe Weinberger, Reb Yussie Zakutinsky of TYH? Someone else?
DaMoshe – Actually, “Litvish” in the sense that it existed in the time of the Gra זי״ע hardly exists any more. The Derech Halimud, and even many practices and minhagim, come from much later. Aside from the fact that almost all “Litvaks” nowadays are descendants of Chassidim.
Dancing on Shabbos etc. is something already discussed in Poskim. Those who Daven Shabbbos morning after Zman Krias Shma hopefully say Shma before Davening, just like the Litvaks who Daven Maariv Friday night BEFORE Zman Krias Shma hopefully say Shma after Davening…
לא בשמים היא is specifically limited to Paskening Halacha. The Arizal and other גדולי הדורות including the Gra himself… also were zocheh to גילויים מן השמים including speaking with Neshamos of previous generations. (See the introduction of R’ Chaim Volozhiner to the Biur HaGra on Sifra Ditzniyusa, as well as Sefer Toldos Adam on R’ Zelmele Volozhiner).
Chassidus is alive and well Baruch Hashem. And even the Litvaks are better off because of it. Just read the last three lines of your own post…
Somejewiknow, how do you spell “emes”?
Yaakov Yosef: The last 3 lines of my post aren’t an endorsement of Chassidus. This concept existed long before Chassidus. The difference is that Chassidus focuses on the feeling, and ignores the proper method of the actions. Traditional Judaism recognizes that feeling is important, but you still need to work on getting the actions done properly.
Other issues with Chassidus include the deification of Rebbes, as well as the role of the Rebbe (or Tzaddik, as the Besht referred to them). The Besht taught that the Tzaddik needed to lower himself down into the filth in order to bring his followers up – and that individuals are incapable of rising without the help of the Tzaddik. He also taught that the Tzaddik was born into his role, and it wasn’t something that one gets to on their own through hard work. To contrast, R’ Chaim Shmulevitz zt”l once asked, why don’t we stand up when a pregnant woman walks into a room? We’re told that a baby, before birth, is taught the entire Torah by a malach, so why don’t we stand up out of respect for the baby? He answered that there was no effort put in when it came to learning the Torah by the baby, so it’s not deserving of respect. If a Rebbe is born into his role, without a yetzer harah, then why is he deserving of any respect? Being “great” when you don’t have a yetzer harah is not praiseworthy at all.@mdd1
I don’t understand your questionYYA is regurgitating Hasidic propaganda, but in order that people not be fooled, I will respond a bit.
Litvish of course does exist, B”H, the influence of the GR”A and his teachings loom large to this day. If descendants of Hasidim sincerely want to join the Litvishe world, they are accepted. The fact that so many do, speaks loudly.
It has been reported that the Vilna Gaon rejected an offer to learn with a heavenly being – מלאך, he held that a person should learn Torah through his own toil.
Chasidus today has serious problems, whether it is a sect with a leader dead over thirty years that considers him to be the Messiah, or other issues. Many Hasidim have been brought closer to Torah by the Litvishe velt and that is a welcome development.
@yedl
No. Not at all. The word “Chassidus” can mean a lot of different things. I was speaking specifically about the teachings of the Baal Shem Tov. Those teaching were no “introduced” they were always part of Torah from Sinai. The Baal Shem Tov was a tzaddik, that is to say he was an almost perfect receptacle of Torah and an almost perfect teacher of Torah. He awoke and explained parts of Torah that were otherwise out of reach from common Jews. He dramatically sped up the hishtashlis of Torah from above to below and certainly did and/or enabled the uplifting of many sparks as the light of Torah was now reaching even lower levels than before.This is just like the Chofetz Chaim didn’t “introduce” hilchos lushen hureh. Or the Satmar Rebbe didn’t “introduce” the gezeiros hagulis. They simply taught the same Torah that was given to us and passed down to us generation after generation from Sinai. Their “novelty” was just in arousing and emphasising the overlooked and less accessible parts of Torah.
As I said before, this is why every kosher Jew is student of the Baal Shem Tov because being a student of his just means being a student to the Torah m’Sinai that he clarified and made accessible.
To Lemayseh
I’m happy to see that you called out YYA. He’s a shill for Chassidus particularly Chabad. You can tell when someone is a liar when that person never acknowledges any point made by his adversary. That’s YYA to a tee. Anything he says should be taken with a quarter grain of salt. On the other, hand I don’t believe, as you seem to be implying, that eventually Chassidus will disappear. Of course, you’re right that the main problem with the Chassidic world is Chabad. On a personal note, I was very close to a Chassidish Rebbe, who was a Gadol. He and Rav Moshe were best friends, and I consider him far and away the greatest person I’ve ever known. He knew Shas by heart with every Tosafos. I’m partial to Rebbes who are great Talmidei Chachamim like the Sfas Emes.
I don’t want to take sides in this discussion. I’ll also bli neder get to learning chassidus when I am finished with nigleh. [just a tiny dig: when I see people engaged in serious chassidus who seemingly did not yet learn how to be nice to a shul member or a goy b’shuk – I am wondering whether money spent on the spodek were well spent].
But my question is – how can you insist on carefully following minhagei Baal Shem tov or any Rebbe – when chassidus itself started as a change of their tradition – not just “nusach sefard” that is still ashkenaz, just sefard-style, of course, but also creating separate kehilos, diverting community taxes. So, after such a radical revolution (and I do understand that there were good reasons for that) – now suddenly we can’t change anything in the levush for 200 years.
Did someone write about this question?
When comparing the baal shem tov and his talmidim to our generation , one should keep in mind the huge differences between then and now .
not only in the level of the generations , “huge” would be a clear understatement
but also in chasidut itself
for the first few generations of hasidut , the son or son in law did not take over
it was the most suitable hasid or talmid who took over
and there was no guarantee either that the one taking over, would automatically ‘take’ all the hasidim with him
the doors were wide open for anyone to travel to someone else entirely
guaranteeing clear meritocracy
and dynamism within the movement
since that changed and it became an issue with hilchot yerusha , brand names , buildings and mosdot chinuch and batei midrash
and on top of that , all the publicity that goes with every specific hasidut
it has lost much of its original appeal
although one can still find to’elet in hasidic courts nowadays
it is a very far cry from the baal shemtovs talmidim – a different world ….
.
..
.Yedl: “In fact, Chassidishe Rebbes in every generation continued the Derech of the Ba’al Shem Tov, kept the Minhagim instituted by the Ba’al Shem Tov (just one basic example: Davening Nusach Sfard) and had עלית הנשמה and repeated their experiences.”
Yudl, 1) R. Yisroel Leizerson (aka BESHT, R. Israel ben Eliezer) davened nusach Ashkenaz. The change to Hasidic “nusach Sfard” was a later development. 2) You claiming that Hasidic Rebbes today have aliyas neshama and then tell it over?? Which Rebbe and which sect is this? Berland-Breslev???
DaMoshe – You are just repeating old tropes without learning what the Baal Shem Tov actually said or didn’t say. I don’t have time to copy over the numerous מראי מקומות. If you are serious, do your own research. Many Sifrei Chassidus are available online and searchable.
“The difference is that Chassidus focuses on the feeling, and ignores the proper method of the actions.”
No, it does not. There is much in print from the great Gedolei HaChassidus going back to the Baal Shem Tov himself about the importance of learning and following Halacha in all of its details. Chassidus produced and continues to produce Geonim and Poskim. The fact that some individual Rebbes davened late etc. doesn’t change that. The Baal Shem Tov himself davened Vasikin every day, and recommended doing so, as attested to in the Tzavaas Baal Shem Tov and other sources.
“deification of Rebbes”
This wasn’t even a claim of the original Misnagdim. You are confusing the actions of some disturbed Baalei Teshuva in Tzfas with Chassidus in general.
“The Besht taught that the Tzaddik needed to lower himself down into the filth in order to bring his followers up – and that individuals are incapable of rising without the help of the Tzaddik.”
לאו רישא סיפא ולאו סיפא רישא. “Helping” is one thing, “incapable without” is something else. The statistical probability of someone making it on his own in Ruchniyus without a Rebbe to guide him is significantly lower.
“He also taught that the Tzaddik was born into his role, and it wasn’t something that one gets to on their own through hard work.”
Where did he ever say such a thing? The concept of “dynasties” started decades after the Baal Shem Tov passed away.
“Being “great” when you don’t have a yetzer harah is not praiseworthy at all.”
Correct, an idea expounded at length in the Chassidishe Seforim.
yedl: I didn’t say Chassidus doesn’t exist today. I said Chassidus as the Besht practiced it is long gone. You mentioned davening Nusach Sfard – the Besht actually didn’t daven that Nusach. He davened Nusach Ari. The shul he davened in used Nusach Ashkenaz. He did not have a mesorah to switch his nusach, and made the decision on his own. Nusach Sfard didn’t even come about until well after the Besht died.
You say that Rebbes had “Aliyas neshama” by following his practices – how did they know this? Because they got a warm fuzzy feeling inside when they followed his teachings? We don’t really know when we are getting an aliyas neshama. We simply follow the Torah, and assume that by doing so, we are elevating ourselves.
I hope you don’t mind if I respond to the questions you posed to somejew.
1. The Besht definitely made a major transformation. He removed the emphasis on learning Torah, and switched it to D’veykus and Tefillah. He basically taught that learning Torah was no longer the best method to connect with Hashem.
2. As I just said, he removed the primacy of Torah. He also came up with his ideas of the Tzaddik, which the Gra firmly opposed – one reason was he felt that it would lead to viewing the Tzaddik/Rebbe as more than human, and would be considered avodah zarah. Given what we see in Chabad and Breslov, I’d say the Gra was definitely correct. Other chassidish sects also view their Rebbe as more than human, although not to the level that Chabad or Breslov do.
3. Absolutely. Chassidim still focus more on Tefillah and D’veykus than on learning Torah. They also worship their Rebbes – sadly, this has crept into the yeshivish world, where the influence of how Rebbes are viewed has now extended to Rabbonim as well – look at how people line up to get brachos from them! My wife’s grandmother a”h, who lived in Bnei Brak, once told me how much it bothered her. She told me, “You know, I used to go to the Kanievsky home regularly – when I had a question, if I mistakenly put a milchig spoon into a fleishig pot, and I needed to know what to do! Or if I wasn’t sure if the chicken was kosher (it was back in the days when you took a live chicken to a shochet, and then cleaned it yourself), I’d ask the Rav about it! But now, people line up down the block to get brachos – and I can’t ask him what the halacha is regarding my spoon!” Her son, my wife’s uncle, added to that, “And if R’ Chaim would hear that the Rebbetzin was outside and needed to ask a shailah, he’d tell everyone to move aside and let her in!”Chassidus was tempered by the litvish Rabbonim who opposed it – they scaled back many of the radical things that the Besht taught, and moved back into the mainstream. That’s why they ended up being accepted. They also influenced the litvish world with some of their own things – it’s hard to turn away things that really make people feel good, and give that warm fuzzy feeling.
I’ll just share one thing my daughter discussed with one of her teachers, in the Beis Yaakov she attends. This teacher is chassidish, and my daughter has a lot of questions about it. She asked about the radical changes that the Besht instituted. The teacher replied, “The Besht’s teachings were definitely a shas hadchak! The peasants in Eastern Europe were illiterate, and couldn’t learn. They faced horrible antisemitism, and were moving away from being frum Jews. The Besht came up with a way for them to connect to Hashem that worked for them, and kept them being shomer Torah u’mitzvos. Was it ideal? Absolutely not. But it was a shas hadchak, and it worked for those people. But for Jews who were frum, who were learning Torah at the time, it definitely wasn’t the right derech.”DaMoshe: The Gra’s opposition was a generation after the Baal Shem Tov; the Gra’s opposition was to the behavior he heard about in his generation; not that of the generation of the Baal Shem Tov. Indeed, the Gra only issued his public opposition more than a decade after the Baal Shem Tov was already long niftar.
Furthermore, the Gra’s cherem was only against those alive at the time he issued it. The Gra never issued a cherem against later generations of Chasidim, who weren’t even born in his lifetime. In fact, that would have been impossible to do.
The better question is how you feel the right to question disagreements between bona fide tzadikim from hundreds of years before your lifetime, while at the same time supporting and being a part of the so-called “Modern Orthodox” heresy that openly tolerates and supports completely anti-Torah activities such as mixed swimming in MO bungalow colonies and elsewhere, co-ed mixing of boys and girls fraternizing and being friends with each other and having boyfriends/girlfriends, teaching clear full throttled apikorsus in YU and other MO schools, Young Israel synagogues having mixed dancing in their social halls, joining anti-Torah movements such as Reform and Conservative in joint organizations such as the Synagogue Council of America, allowing married women to go around with their hair uncovered and dressed with uncovered legs in public in Modern Orthodox neighborhoods being not only a common sight but the default dress for MO women, and a whole host of similarly terrible **current** behaviors today practiced without remorse and in public by the vast majority of the MO.
DaMoshe: Did you ever wonder why the Litvish Gedolim and the Chasidish Gedolim not only recognize and respect each others shittas, but they jointly sit in the same organizations such as Agudas Yisroel (founded by the very Litvish Chofetz Chaim jointly together with the very Chasidish Gerrer Rebbe) and consult with each other and make joint decisions on bodies such as the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah, since the days of the Chofetz Chaim and Gerrer Rebbe through this very day today?
While at the same time both the Litvish Gedolim and the Chasidish Gedolim freeze out all of the so-called Modern Orthodox rabbis and schools such as YU from their Rabbinic and other organizations, since they have no confidence in the Yiddishkeit of the MO.
Ujm, the Beis Ha’Levi held that Chassidim may not be buried in a regular Jewish cemetery because the cheirem was still in force.
And DO NOT TRY to stir the tread away from it’s real topic!R Soloveitchik was not frozen out of aguda, he is listed on moetzes website, he left on his own.
Hasidism , Reform and Zionism may be a clear issue for our Rabbanim . Each leader chose the derech that worked for them.There are those who are ambivalent to soldiers, those who embrace them and those who attack them . Same with Hasidism and Reformers. Some have Austritt and others do not. Just like Iyov, Yisro and Bilaam for example. Only today do Yisro and Bilaam fight each other. There were 4 groups at the Yam Suf as well. Some change positions or moderate their positions . Others are loyal to the end. Some of the Hasidic leaders today oppose other branches of their own . Enough said.
mdd: False. The Beis Haleivi was the Rov is Slutsk and he absolutely never prevented that they be buried in the regular Jewish cemetery in Slutsk, where he was the authority. The only thing he didn’t do was use Chasidishe shechita. Nothing more or less.
Ishpurim: You have machlokes rabbonim within every group. Whether the Litvish Ponovezh, the Sefardim, the Chasidim, R’ Yaakov Emden and R’ Yonasan Eibshitz, the Rambam and his opponents. etc. It doesn’t detract from the greatness of all sides.
Of course there are exceptions such as Reform, Karaites, MO, Conservative, Zionism etc.
Agudas Yisroel was founded jointly by Rav Chaim Brisker, the Gerrer Rebbe, the Chofetz Chaim, the Belzer Rebbe, Rav Chaim Ozer Grodzinski, the Belzer Rebbe, Rav Meir Simcha of Dvinsk, Rav Moshe Greenwald (the Arugas HaBosem), the Czortkow Rebbe, Rav Itzele Rabinowitz of Ponevezh, and even the Munkatcher Rebbe(!! though the Munkatcher later withdrew).
You couldn’t get a better full fledged alliance between the greatest of the greatest from both the Litvishe and Chasidishe velts.
Reb Yedl – מה לכהן בקברות, there are better places to ask serious questions.
This thread began with the following statement:
“I believe that there are many people here who identify as “Chassidim” or “Chassidish” or something like that.
In my mind, this means that their life has been effected in some way by a revolution started by the Ba’al Shem Tov a few hundred years ago.
I am very curious to know how different people feel about this:
How would your Yiddishkeit or life in general have been different if not for the Ba’al Shem Tov?
What does it mean to you that you are a Chassid?”In other words, a self-identified Chossid, asked fellow Chassidim or those interested in Chassidus or with some Kesher to Chassidus, to discuss what Chassidus means to them. Anyone opposed to the Baal Shem Tov or Chassidus, or who doesn’t believe his Derech still exists, need not comment altogether. Just go on with your life as usual. Why the venom? Why the ביזוי תלמידי חכמים from close to 300 years ago?
The Beis Haleivi’s granddaughter (daughter of Reb Chaim Brisker) was married to a Chossid. The Chofetz Chaim in Mishna Berura quotes the Shulchan Aruch Harav with the same or greater frequency, and deliberately using the same honorific title (HaGRaZ – HaGRA), as he quotes the Vilna Gaon. If you don’t like Chassidus, don’t be a Chossid. Be an Ehrlicher Litvak. But don’t be a shaygetz who is מבזה תלמידי חכמים.
DaMoshe said – “I’d say the Gra was definitely correct.”
I am מוחה on you being מבזה the Gra זי״ע. It’s assur to say such a thing even about your father or your Rebbi, let alone about גדולי הדורות from 250 years ago. The Gra זי״ע doesn’t need your הסכמה.
Before you and some other chevra on this thread open up your פי חזיר כבית הכסא ניידא דמי to be מבזה Gedolim from centuries ago, you should first learn what the Baal Shem Tov זי״ע and later גדולי החסידות זי״ע really said (and didn’t say), what the Gra זי״ע and later גדולי ליטא זי״ע said (and didn’t say), and also what the Shulchan Aruch says…
I am writing this as מחאה, not as an invitation for more debate.
Prophecy, It has come to my attention that H”M wants the following to take place in one month’s time (today is November 30, 2025), that the following group, Satmar Rebbe Shlita Zalman Yekusiel Yehuda Leib Teitelbaum of 152 Rodney Street Shul of Williamsburg Brooklyn New York U.S.A. move 20 (twenty) of His Families to the following location, Elizabethport, New Jersey 07206 U.S.A. That is all. Bleipt Gezundt one and all, Signed Rebbetzin Dinah Devorah Teitelbaum Kallah of this group.
Yedl – “when someone has a warm fuzzy feeling, is he doing the Mitzvas Aseh of Ahavas Hashem?”
Yes, actually, on a basic level. (אהבה טבעית vs. אהבה רבה etc. There is actually a lot of profound “Reid” in the ספרים הקדושים on the supposedly “fuzzy feeling” stuff.) How is anyone מחנך children (little or big or sometimes even adults…) to Ahavas Hashem, Ahavas HaTorah, Ahavas HaMitzvos? With warm fuzzy emotion that doesn’t involve big Hasagos. Obviously there is much room to grow further over the course of a lifetime.
The Baal Shem Tov taught 60 great Talmidim, most of whom were already great Geonim and Lamdanim before they met the Baal Shem Tov, and many were already or went on to become Rabbonim and Poskim. The Baal Shem Tov had what to teach them just as much (and more) as he had what to teach Poshute Yidden. The trope that Chassidus is only about “feelings” and not Torah ח״ו is מזוייף מתוכו. There is a very important Inyan not to NEGLECT “feelings”, not to REJECT “Poshute Yidden”, not to be מבטל any aspect of חובת האדם בעולמו OTHER than “only” Lomdus, but none of this is a סתירה to גדלות בתורה or the centrality of Torah in the life of a Yid.
To ujm
What would you say about Rav Hershel Shachter Shlita and Rav Mordechai Willig Shlita
qwerty: They’re personally frum in their own lives but they’re misguided in how they lead their followers.
Ujm, so I heard from a very Yeshivishe person. I doubt you are so baki in the Beis Ha’Levi shittos to know it is for sure false, but I do understand that it is not up your alley to believe this info.
mdd: I know firsthand what you erroneously think you know, but are mistaken based on second or thirdhand misinformation.
Yaakov Yosef – Reb Chaim Brisker had a Chassidish son-in-law? Which “Brisk Yeshiva” do his descendants run?
I don’t know about Beis Levi, but R Moshe Soloveitchik, Chaim Brisker’s son was a Rav at a chabad town and initially hired a chanbadnik as a teacher for his son, RJBS (until the mother caught up with the fact that the son is learning chassidus at the expense of Gemorah).
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