- This topic has 61 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 20 minutes ago by .
-
Posts
-
R’ Yisroel Loebel, who was a Rav at the time Chassidus was founded, wrote that he had corresponded with the Rav of Medzhybizh regarding the Besht. The Rav decided to farher the Besht, and see if he actually was a talmud chacham. He wrote to R’ Loebel that he found the Besht was “an empty cistern, without a drop of learning in him.”
R’ Dovid Makov, another Rav at that time, wrote that the Besht had a thirst for power, but because he lacked Torah knowledge, he had to invent a new path for himself to attract followers.
R’ Chaim Volozhin reportedly said that the Besht purposely claimed to be a tzaddik, and not a talmud chacham. He compared it to a child who doesn’t want to go to school. He said, if a child claims to have a headache and a fever, the mother can feel the child’s head and determine if he really has a fever or not. But if a child claims to have a stomachache, there’s nothing the mother can do to check that, and the child gets to stay home. So too, someone claiming to be a talmud chacham can be tested, to see if it’s a legitimate claim. But claiming to be a tzaddik is something that can’t be verified. He said that the Besht claimed to be a tzaddik because it would have been obvious that he was an ignoramus.To ujm
Please explain how they misguide others.
AAQ:
R Moshe Soloveitchik, Chaim Brisker’s son—
why does AAQ persists in calling gdolei hador by their first name ??
this is against shulhan aruch hilchot kvod rabo
it is …. RAV CHAIM BRISKER
.
qwerty: The entire MO movement is misguided; and that’s being very charitable.
The modus operandi of MO is to water down Judaism to its lowest common denominator to make it palatable and acceptable to anyone.
qwerty, if Rabbi Schachter or Rabbi Willig ever said the State and Zionism was an error or that women should be strongly encouraged to not have a career and be stay at home or that women should not be learning Torah Shebal Peh or that people should not be going to universities these days due to the rampant apikorsus and pritzus or that young men should be strongly encouraged to go to Kollel or that everyone is required to have a strong filter on any Internet connection or that mixed seating at weddings are not permitted, they’d be run out of town by the MO crowd faster than you can say goodbye and be out of their job. They know where their bread is buttered and most toe the line.
Just a couple of weeks ago Rabbi Schachter publicly apologized for a letter he wrote to a judge encouraging that a Jewish prisoner be released. Nothing changed between the time he wrote the letter until he apologized other than the MO crowd got angry at him for writing it.
Ujm, you know firsthand about the Beis Ha’Levi? You met him? Sober up, please.
Given how much Torah and Torah-observant Jews came out of chassidus, it is clear that the foundations were true. It is quite possible that the opposition at the time did not see why these innovations were needed; or/and initial movement made some bad moves first and they were corrected, whether on their own or under Gaon’s pressure. In any case, a founder could not be have been totally wrong.
Joe, I don’t bother engaging much with you anymore, as it’s pointless to engage with a troll. However, in this case I must publicize the circumstances in the case you’re referring to.
R’ Schachter shlita withdrew from a letter asking for the release of a Jewish prisoner, it’s true. Who is this prisoner? A man who was masquerading as a therapist, although he had no training in this area, and no certification. He used his position to horribly abuse numerous young girls. He was rightly sentenced to an extremely long prison sentence, which he is now appealing. Nobody should be advocating for his release – he has shown no remorse for his actions whatsoever, and would likely be a threat to continue abusing young girls. He should rot in prison.UJM & MDD, there are no Chassidim buried in Slutsk because there were no Chassidim living in Slutsk. A relative of mine who grew up in Slutsk said there was an acronym of כרפס for four towns/cities in Lithuania/Belarus with no Chassidim at all. (ס for Slutsk, would anybody know the others, as a side point? He didn’t remember.)
The Beis Halevi saying not to bury Chassidim in Slutsk is a red herring because it would be hypothetical and probably was never seriously discussed. Does anyone have a source for this being asked in the first place?
(I would personally be surprised if such, because normally someone would need to be as major as Spinoza or his type to not get buried in a Jewish cemetery. Not just any yutz would get that refusal. So if correct, I could hear someone saying the Besh”t should not get buried in a Jewish cemetery, but not for every follower.)DaMoshe – Do you know anything about the Machlokes against Rav Yehonasan Eibschitz זצ״ל or the Ramchal זצ״ל? Very great Gedolim accused them of even worse things than you mentioned. Yet no one nowadays questions their Tzidkus and Gadlus. Certainly no one would dare repeat over the language used against them ח״ו, even בשם אומרו (which in these types of things is often hearsay with additional spices and flavorings added.)
DaMoshe,
This “Jewish prisoner”, convicted on 59 counts of abuse was appointed by his ultra-tznius community as a “therapist” and they allowed him to “treat” these young girls behind closed doors.
You can expect Joseph Goebbels, the twisted Nazi troll, to defend all Jewish murderers and abusers since they’re his heroes. He’s wildly infatuated with this monster as well as with Lev Tahor since he loves what they do.
yankel> calling gdolei hador by their first name
maybe rav vilna gaon?
in my stylebook, when name is personalized with a place or another marker, it is used without rav. I might be wrong, but this is why I say that.
If I recall correctly, R Kotler called R Soloveichik – Bostoner Rav, not Rav Bostoner Rav, and R Soloviechik called R Kotler Kletzker Rosh Yeshiva, not Rav Kletzker Rosh Yeshivaon the other hand, R (just for you) Chasam Sofer called Moses Mendelsohn RaMaD – rav Moshe mDasau even when denouncing him, and other Rabbis of that generation did not all hold by the denouncing – while posters here use his name without rav and with bad words and protest putting him in the same list as R Hirsh – even as R Hirsh puts him on the list with Rambam (both respecting and criticizing – both of them). And mods seem to be not even allowing posts with his name in the title when the post is entirely a quote from R Hirsh (unless mods are simply overworked and do not start any new threads).
chiefshmerel: There were a small community of Chasidim in Slutsk (mostly Chabad but some Polishe as well.) They were there already before the Beis Halevi become Rov in 1865 and remained there during his entire Rabbanus there. They had a Shteeble near the train station in Slutsk. And the Beis Halevi permitted their burial in the Slutsk Bais Hachaim.
Chiefsmerel, not being buried in a Jewish cemetery means not being buried next erlache Yidden. The Halochah is that we bury even Jewish reshoim in a Jewish cemetery — just not next to the erlache Yidden.
DaMoshe: You are confirming what I said. Rabbi Schachter wrote a letter to the judge requesting the Jewish prisoner be released. When his MO crowd heard about it they got angry at him. Since they got angry at him, and he needs their patronage, he issued an apology for writing the letter — even though nothing changed between the time he wrote the letter and the time he apologized for it.
Debating whether the Jewish prisoner should be released is irrelevant to the point. Whether you think he should or think he shouldn’t, nothing changed for Rabbi Schachter to suddently change his mind — other than he needs his crowd so he needs to toe their line.
I think karpas also includes ponevezh and kosova, hometowns to some well-known rabbis!
When looking for info about Slutsk, I found this funny story:
Rabbi Yoshe-Ber used to give the following explanation about why Misnagdim fast on the day of yahrzeit, and Hasidim make a feast with a lechayim.Before the giving of the Torah, when Jews did not know how to learn, and they saw that Moses our Teacher was late, they surmised that he had passed away, and they made a feast: “And the people sat down to eat”. Year later, when Moses our Teacher indeed passed away, it was already after the giving of the Torah. Jews knew how to learn, and they did not make a feast. They only observed mourning, as it states in the verse: “And the Children of Israel wept over Moses.
chief > saying not to bury Chassidim in Slutsk is a red herring
this is not a good argument, who knows what was the original cause – if there was animosity and even no burial place, then chasidim will not live there.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.