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google:
“Who was in Israel first?
The Palestinians were in Israel first, then it was flooded with European Jews from the Holocaust.”I’m not exactly sure why google only took the first part of the article, but if you look at the source that google has you’ll see that the article is disproving that statement.
this is often a result of google-bombing: a group of people jointly click on their favorite answer and it rises to the top. Looks like there are more anti-semites than philo-semites in the world, or at least they are more active.
The fact is the Palestinians have been the majority group in Eretz Yisrael for over a millenia, long before the arrival of the Zionists (who are persons with Jewish ancestry but who have rejected Torah and Mitsvos). Humash makes it very clear that Ha-Shem’s grant of Eretz Yisrael to the Yidden was based on the Yidden accepting Torah, whereas the Zionists have the policy of “We won’t listen, and we don’t do”. Jews who reject Torah, can not logically avoid the fact they are rejecting the idea of a divine right of Jews to Eretz Yisrael.
One should note that the zionists who took control of the Yishuv after World War I, and went on to drive out the British and take control of the country, were in fact secular Europeans who as a matter of “faith” reject the idea the Ha-Shem has any say in what happens in Eretz Yisrael. The Yidden in Eretz Yisrael would be able to make a much stronger argument against the Palestinians if they evicted the Zionists and sent them back to Europe (or America), and then claim rights to Eretz Yisrael based on Torah, backed up by a state in which the Jews were all Bnei Torah (and a state known for its piety and Torah learning, rather than one known for its military prowess, tech startups and the many things we can’t discuss on YWN but for which Tel Aviv is world-famous). Of course that would deprive the Medinah of the ability to rule over the Palestinians, since a community of Bnei Torah would lack the economic and military means of exercising political control.
Except for a bunch of fanatical Hareidim, most persons of Jewish descent (including most who still keep Torah) support the idea that zionism and being Jewish are interchangeable, so one can hardly blame Wikipedia for confusing the terms. And in truth, the zionists who displaced the Palestinians, were and still are almost all secular Europeans so the statement isn’t all wrong other than confusing “zionism” with “Judaism”.
By now, and even then, ideological zionists you described are a part of Jews in EY. By now, they are similar to Jewish communities in any other country…
Also, we often blame divergent Jewish groups for everything wrong, but where did early secular, reform, etc came from? They are not some erev rav, they mostly came from same communities… granted behira and external pressures but what our communities were doing in part are responsible. Not just my opinion. Chofetz Chaim refused to greet rav from a town where Trotsky grew up. Berel Wein traces zionist attitude towards datiim to the history of Russian government forcing Kahal to provide soldiers into the army, leading to alienation between the poor and the community.
The land of Israel has a complex and multi-layered history that dates back thousands of years. According to archaeological evidence, various groups of people have inhabited the area that is now Israel for thousands of years.
In ancient times, the land of Israel was inhabited by many different peoples, including the Canaanites, Israelites, Philistines, Phoenicians, and others. The Israelites, who are considered the ancestors of the Jewish people, settled in the land of Israel around 1200 BCE.
Over the centuries, various empires and powers have conquered and ruled over the land of Israel, including the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Crusaders, Ottomans, and British.
Today, Israel is a sovereign state recognized by the United Nations and many other countries around the world. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict, however, continues to be a complex and contentious issue that involves competing claims to the land by Israelis and Palestinians.
Well there is a bit of a conundrum, because the if one looks at the Israel issue as a nationalist issue (as the Zionists do), the Palestinians had there nation there first – the Zionists can’t be meyaches themselves to when we were there before we were sent into galus, because that was only altz Hashem, not some abstract nationalist idea of Jewish identity (chas veshalom) – and that causes them to have to be intellectually honest and realize that Zionism is a sham.
Bochur,
I think you have a very simplified version of what Zionists are saying (whether original or modern) based on something you heard from a friend who really does not like them. To claim intellectual honesty, you would need to find out more.As to Israeli intellectual honesty, I can quote one Israeli professor I knew: he was not observant himself, and his teenage son started making snide remarks about dosim. So, the father said – if you want to have an opinion about such weighty topics, you need to know what you are talking about, so go get a class. So, the son went to learn – and soon stopped eating at his father’s house. Now, things can happen with everyone, check the mezuzahs, etc, BUT when professor’s second son grew up, he repeated the same shpiel (knowing the risks!) – with the same result. Both of the sons are observant, one was an advisor to a right-wing Israeli government.
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