August 17, 2011 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #800049
I’ve personally seen Rav Shmuel Kaminetzky pressure bochurim to drink more wine, when he felt they were not sufficiently drunkAugust 17, 2011 8:43 pm at 8:43 pm #800050oyveykidsthesedaysMember
hello99: That’s interesting. I don’t know what to make of it.
It could be, however, that he knew that those particular bachurim would be mature about it, and not do anything assur. I don’t know. But it seems from your post that you have connections with him. So if you want to find out what he really holds, I suggest you ask him.August 19, 2011 4:17 am at 4:17 am #800051YW Moderator-42Moderator
I agree with OVKTD about smoking. There is no reason people should suddenly start publicly smoking on Purim. If you want to extend wine to whiskey, etc that is one thing (although I don’t agree with that either) but smoking is inexcusableAugust 19, 2011 4:23 am at 4:23 am #800052TomcheMember
ovktd: What’s so hard to make of it? It’s a mitzvah for them to get drunk and Rav Shmuel was merely encouraging them to do a mitzvah.August 19, 2011 4:28 am at 4:28 am #800053TomcheMember
Getting drunk “ad dlo yoda” is the basic and poshut pshat of the mitzvah on Purim. Are there shittos that hold you don’t have to? Sure, and I won’t hold it against anyone who has a rov that allows him not to get stone drunk and he doesn’t. I won’t even accuse such person of cherry picking his way out of his chiyuv to get drunk. But getting completely drunk is the basic understanding of the mitzvah and what many (if not most) prominent gedolei poskim hold must be done.August 19, 2011 7:07 am at 7:07 am #800054
The wine-only thing is a big Dochek. The Gemara and Meforshim explain the idea of drinking, to be Besimcha. The Svara that the Ness happened with wine is borrowed from Chanuka, where it is not even Halacha. Where do you find a hint in Chazal that we drink because Haman did? How about fasting because the Yidden did? Yes, we actually do, but it is a Minhag, that is not mentioned in the Gemara, surely not as Chayav. It sounds to me that those coming out against drinking went to find any Shitta they can bring along to help the cause. If Rashi explains than Libesumi means to drink wine, that is no reason to exclude wiskey. You do realize that it wasn’t quite invented yet, either.August 19, 2011 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #800055oyveykidsthesedaysMember
Tomche said: “ovktd: What’s so hard to make of it? It’s a mitzvah for them to get drunk and Rav Shmuel was merely encouraging them to do a mitzvah.”
I don’t know what to make of it, because Rav Shmuel said it’s ossur to get drunk on Purim. That being what he said, I don’t understand why he would advise some bochurim to get more drunk. Unless, of course, he knew that they were exceptionally mature, and they wouldn’t do anything bad while drunk.August 19, 2011 7:42 pm at 7:42 pm #800056ItcheSrulikMember
Tomche: Ad d’lo yada refers to the brain, not the liver. Once someone is drunk, his sober friends should stop him before he gets alcohol poisoning.August 19, 2011 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #800057Bar ShattyaMember
Did rav shmuel say its only assur for SOME people to get drunk or did he say its assur to get drunk.
Its either a kasha on him or a kasha on you.
I’ll pick the kasha on you and answer that you are wrong and its not assur to get drunkAugust 19, 2011 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #800058
Itche, that is a great point and very cute. Actually the Gemara points to the fact that you have to watch out from dangerous drinking. Lav Kol Yoma Israchish Nisa.August 19, 2011 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #800059
OVKTD, it may be that when he said Assur, he was referring to giving Bachurim that chanced into your house. You have know idea how much they already had, what they had, and who’s driving.August 20, 2011 8:24 pm at 8:24 pm #800061
Actually, I clearly remember one bachur who was a bit of a trouble maker being encouraged to drink at Rav Shmuel’s house. After plying him with drinks, the Rosh Yeshiva asked “are you drunk, really drunk?” When the bachur replied in the positive, Rav Shmuel asked him “What is the worst thing you’ve done since coming to Yeshiva?”. He answered “Rebbe, I’m drunk, but not THAT drunk!”August 20, 2011 8:26 pm at 8:26 pm #800062
Also, a friend of mine asked Rav Shmuel if whiskey is acceptable for the chiuv of getting drunk, and Rav Shmuel answered in the affirmative.
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