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What are their war aims besides obviously eliminating Hamas? Will the International community let Israel take back Gaza? No. We know Egypt and Jordan won’t take all the people allowed to evacuate Gaza. There will still be millions of Arabs around still who feel Israel is theirs and should not exist.
The end game could be that a Russian-Iranian force marches into Tel Aviv, while American pursues an “America First” agenda. While the DINOs and RINOs support Israel, the WOKE and MAGA are opposed to foreign wars.
Biden is one of the least popular presidents in American history, and a big chunk of his party cheered the idea of Jewish babies getting slaughtered. The isolationist wing of the Republicans appears to be ascendant. There appears very little support in the US for a massive military buildup, which is probably the only thing that will deter the Sino-Russia-Iranian-North Korean alliance. When the rest of the “free world” sees American chicken out, they’ll realize they have to make their peace with the “new world order”.
An excellent question, lakewhut. It should be asked more often.
It looks like Israel’s goals in this war are shrinking with every day. While in the begining, they wanted to “Flatten Gaza”, the goals now are merely to rebuilt deterrence, and incapacitate Hamas’s military and administrative capabilities. If that sounds familiar to you, it should — these are the same goals that Israel set for itself at all previous engagements with Hamas. This shows that all talk about a change in “contzeptiya” and deep soul searching is empty — Israel is back at the same plate.
The reason Israel is regurgitating the same concepts that have shown themselves so impotent, is Israel has no other concept. Israel has to either 1) accept Arabs next to them, or 2) expel them, or 3) expel themselves. Expelling the Arabs, like Rabbi Kahane zt”l hy”d begged us to do for decades, will carry with it a stiff diplomatic penalty — Israel may find itself as isolated as North Korea, which will also be a victory for Iran. We just need to consider if that’s better than what happened two weeks ago.
But like it or not, the Israeli war is with the Muslims, not the Palestinians. To be effective, “transfer” means expelling all the Muslims, and in effect return the world (okay, northern Africa, the Middle East, East and South Asia) to the status quo ante that existed prior to the rise of Islam. The means turning North Africa and the West Asia to be Christian, Iran to be Zoroastrian, Pakistan and Indonesia to be Hindu, etc. Practically it won’t happen. As many gedolim said 100+ years ago, the only viable alternative is to be willing to live in peace with the Muslims, which might be acceptable to some Hareidim but would never be tolerable to the hilonim.
What is the end game was asked ever since Israel came into existence. B’Derech Hatevah it no longer would. In this particular situation their end game seems to be to keep fighting and squeezing Gaza until the residents of Gaza themselves no longer have any interest in Hamas keeping up the fight. End of the day even Hamas could never survive without popular public support. There is a limit to how despotic they can be inside Gaza and still live off donations and arab and liberal sympathy
They want to eliminate Hamas and leave Gaza.
I think the main thing preventing many religious people in Israel from adopting a more Kehana approach is the belief that all things Moshiach and most things E”Y are completely miraculous and therefore dont require our planning.
this prevents the haredi parties from long term strategic planningim not one to take side in this ancient mechlokos
Apukerma,
What gives you the crazy idea that Russia (kinda busy right now with Ukraine) has any interest in “marching into Tel Aviv”?
While Iran would like to, being over 1,000 miles away that’s not really possible.Perhaps the caption should have been “End game for Zionism”. What happens to the Zionists will be at most an inconvenience. While have legal and political rights, whether in America or Eretz Yisrael is nice, Jewish survival has always been related to Torah and Mitsvos.
The Zionist future in the long run is bleak. Zionism was found on the dual principles of socialism and secularism. The former has largely been sent to the “dustbin of history”, and the latter is incompatible with the other peoples of the Middle East. The Zionists always believed that anti-Semitism was a reaction to what Jews did (dress differently, worship differently, value different classics, etc.), and they never have been able to realize that racism is not based on logic but on hatred.
The Hareidim have always been the heart of of the Jewish world, and will continue to be so in the future, since there is where Torah and Mitsvos rule, and all the secular false idols are rejected – and this makes no difference where we are living, or under what regime.
>>>The Zionists always believed that anti-Semitism was a reaction to what Jews did (dress differently, worship differently, value different classics, etc.
Actually it’s the oppisite. Zionism was born by the Dreyfus trial. Herzl was a reporter there. Seeing the obvious antisemitism against Dreyfus, a French artillery officer who like Herzl was so removed from anything having to do with Judaism religiously and even culturally caused to him realize that antisemitism is NOT a result of Jews acting differently. After the pogroms in Odesa, the bastion of assimilation that idea started picking up speed. With the Zionist conclusion that the only ways Jews no matter how secular can be free from antisemitism is they have their own country.
In either case Zionism has been dead for decades already
The “end game” for Israel is Moshiach. All the rest is commentary.
Whether you call it “Zionism” or any other term, that is the reality and EY is the ONLY choice for Jews in today’s world. For those mindless yidden who think they go back and live peacefully under Palestinian or Arab rule, you will likely find yourselves getting your chelek of olam haboh a bit earlier than anticipated ch”v. There is no going back to a world than many of us think never really existed.
Huju: Agreed, but we need a transition plan to get there (hopefully b’mharah b’yamneu)
Hashem the king of kings and ruler of the entire world is running this entire Israeli -Gaza War scene from beginning to end and has a clear plan already what is going to happen during the war and when the war will come to an end and what the end result will be.
The final results are all in the hands of all of klal yisroel -myself included -when we all wake ourselves up from living in denial and FACE REALITY by openly speaking to Hashem with serious Teshuva and Achdus together that we get Hashems wake up call and we’re ready to accept Hashems wake up call for serious Teshuva and Achdus like the people of Nineveh did immediately as soon as Yonah Hanavi arrived with the message from Hashem for them to do serious Teshuva. And what did the goyish king do as soon as Yonah Hanavi gave him over Hashems message? He immediately shut the city of Nineveh down completely to doing serious Teshuva and fasting for everyone.
May we all accept Hashems wake up call for serious Teshuva and Achdus together ASAP so Hashem can send Mashiach already bkarov and end this terrible Israel- Gaza war killing hundreds of innocent people R”L already
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