April 22, 2019 11:22 pm at 11:22 pm #1718374
“The four sons” in Hagada – why not “daughters”?
Is there a mitvah of sipur yetzias mitzrayim to daughters?April 23, 2019 12:07 am at 12:07 am #1718435JosephParticipant
Mr. Rebbetzin: Please see…
Bava Basra (16b)
Rambam (Hilchos Ishus 15:20)April 23, 2019 9:57 am at 9:57 am #1718506☕️coffee addictParticipant
The reason it’s not daughters is because they’re busy cooking and serving to ask questions and the sons tell the daughters when they come back
“You heard the hitting sound, that was abba knocking out jack’s teeth”April 23, 2019 9:58 am at 9:58 am #1718512
Joseph, look also Hilchos Ishus (15,19) may be that is why it is called Nesuin, to elevate each other and put the other partner on a pedestal. Since sippur yetzias mitzraim is Torah, and girls where not commanded to be taught Torah, only boys are mentioned. It says בשביל נשים צדקניות נגאלו, so they are also included but man have to thank more for their redemption. The Chasam Sofer explains that by kabolas HaTorah it says אל תגשו אל האשה don’t rely on the zechusim of women but have your own.April 23, 2019 9:58 am at 9:58 am #1718513motchah11Participant
Well, in my family the girls also asked the Mah Nishtana.April 23, 2019 9:58 am at 9:58 am #1718514
Please explain what it says in these places. (Not a shiyur klali).April 23, 2019 11:10 am at 11:10 am #1718635lowerourtuition11210Participant
Reb. are you ignoring the passuk…v’hegadita lvincha.April 23, 2019 11:43 am at 11:43 am #1718654
lowerourtuition11210 – “Reb. are you ignoring the passuk…v’hegadita lvincha”,
Are you serious?
Does Bnei Yisroel exclude women?
The possuk says בנים אתם לה’ אלוקיכם, that includes all genders!April 23, 2019 11:43 am at 11:43 am #1718655
lasken – “sippur yetzias mitzraim is Torah, and girls where not commanded to be taught Torah, only boys are mentioned”
Are you serious?
Women are michuyav in ALL mitzvos of pessach!
Do you exclude them from sippur yetzias mitzrayim (both the asking and the answering)?
V’higadata l’bincha is a special mitzva, unrelated to Talmud Torah and chinuch haBonim.April 23, 2019 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm #1718664
lasken – BTW, it is b’feirush in Mogen Avrohom (and MB) in s. 471 s”K 7, based on RAMA that a young son who reached the age of sipur yetzias mitzrayim must not be given matza on erev pessach so that the matzah should be new to him (when he asks the questions), adds the M.A. the same also for a young DAUGHTER – there is no difference!April 23, 2019 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm #1718665
RG, look at the Sefer Hachinuch 21, the chinuch says yes, women are mechuyav but the Minchas Chinuch asks why?April 23, 2019 12:24 pm at 12:24 pm #1718668
RG, it says כה תאמר לבית יעקב ותגיד לבני ישראל look at Rashi by Kabolas Hatorah that Beis Yaakov refers to the women whereas Bnei Yisroel refers to the men. Once the women agree, you will not have the Etz Hadaas problem and they will encourage the men. The women tell lightly and the men harshly.April 23, 2019 12:58 pm at 12:58 pm #1718675
I was questioning if sippur yetzias mitzraim is a responsibility on the father. There is a certainly a chiyuv on them like any other mitzva on Pesach.April 23, 2019 2:10 pm at 2:10 pm #1718674
lasken – “RG, look at the Sefer Hachinuch 21, the chinuch says yes, women are mechuyav but the Minchas Chinuch asks why?”
There are sifrei lomdos, and sifrei halacha l’maaseh.
The Oruch HaShulchan is a sefer of halacha l’maaseh.
The Oruch Hashulchon s. 472, ss. 15 explicitly writes that women are michuyav in ALL the mitzvos of leil pessach including saying the Hagadah, and if they can’t say it themselves, they may hear it from someone else.
Chazal say that matzah is called “Lechem Oni” because we speak on the matzah the Haggada. Since women are michuyav in matxa: lechem oni, they must also speak over it the hagada.
Further, the RAMBAM in Sefer HaMitzvos (Mitzva Assay 248) lists all mitzvos that women are pottur and all that they are chayav, states that women ARE michuyav in Mitzva Assay 157: Sippur Yetzias Mitzrayim.April 23, 2019 2:11 pm at 2:11 pm #1718683thinker123Participant
See aruch hashulchan end of siman 472April 23, 2019 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #1718686April 23, 2019 2:52 pm at 2:52 pm #1718696
Are the Four Sons over bar-mitzvah?
If under bar mitzvah – can one son be a “rasha”?!
If over bar mitzva, the chochom MUST actually DO all the hilchos pessach, so why is he being taught NOW, when he should have been taught as a kotton higiya l’chinuch?!April 23, 2019 6:09 pm at 6:09 pm #1718733lowerourtuition11210Participant
RG: OBviously not as we are told Sheheino yodea lishol. No again you and your feminist agenda want to interpret l’vincha as children and not son as is the literal meaning. And the mishna in pesachim (10:4) says. “מָזְגוּ לוֹ כוֹס שֵׁנִי, וְכָאן הַבֵּן שׁוֹאֵל אָבִיו are you going to interpret BEN as daughter too?April 23, 2019 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #1718743klugeryidParticipant
Not sure what the question is
גם הנשים חייבות בארבע כוסות ובכל מצות הנוהגות באותו הלילה
מצות הנוהגות וכו’ כגון מצה ומרור ואמירת הגדהApril 23, 2019 8:36 pm at 8:36 pm #1718740
RG, did you read what I wrote just before you? Is there a mitzva on the father to tell yetzias mitzraim to the daughter? She has a mitzva like other mitzvas on pesach to speak about it but does the father have the mitzva?April 23, 2019 10:06 pm at 10:06 pm #1718770
owerourtuition11210 – I will interpret BEN Noach to include all genders.
ALso BEN Adom to include all.
And BEN Olom Habah to include…yep.
Get the point?April 23, 2019 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #1718769
lasken – did you not see that the Oruch Hashulchan clearly writes in s. 473, ss. 21:
ואם אין לו בן – תשאל הבת, so if the DAUGHTER asks, obviousley the Father must answer her!April 24, 2019 1:18 am at 1:18 am #1718751
I love your raya from BEN that it must mean a male and not female. Mamash geon’us!!
Let’s follow that “raya”:
Is a BEN Noach only a male and not a female?
Is a BEN Adom only a man and not a woman?!
Does בני בכורי ישראל excluding of women?!
Your comment is gevaldig!!April 24, 2019 9:15 am at 9:15 am #1718898
RG, that is chiyuv is also on the himself, if there is no daughter, the father.April 24, 2019 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #1719013
lasken – indeed, ומה שאמר הכתוב לבנך, דלאו דוקא בנו, אלא אפילו עם כל בריה (Sefer HaChinuch), As the Medrash expands the והיה כי ישאלך בנך מחר לאמר chiyuv that “son” is not a requirement: והגדת לבנך – אף על פי שאינו שואלך. אין לי אלא בזמן שיש לו בן, בינו לבין עצמו בינו לבין אחרים מנין? תלמוד לומר “ויאמר משה אל העם זכור את היום הזה”
The issue is, is there ANY requirement for “daughters” (as questioned by Minchas Chinuch).
The position I stated, is that since a DAUGHTER must also ask (if there is no son), indicates that a daughter is part of the והיה כי ישאלך בנך מחר לאמר. Namely, that בנך includes all “children” (except that a son has priority).April 24, 2019 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #1719119
RG, you are saying that whoever asks you must answer.April 24, 2019 11:17 pm at 11:17 pm #1719201
I meant obviously the father must answer.April 24, 2019 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #1719208
lasken – “if there is no daughter, the father” No, if no daughter, the wife asks.And only then, he asks himself and answers his own questions (because the tzuras haMitzva is b’ofen kashya v’ tirutz).April 28, 2019 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #1720008
RG, the father is asked not the mother.April 28, 2019 9:17 pm at 9:17 pm #1720074iacisrmmaParticipant
rg: I believe it is time for you to take a trip to the past, find the baal hagadah and ask him the question directly. then come back and tell us the answer.April 28, 2019 9:47 pm at 9:47 pm #1720040
laskern – “RG, the father is asked not the mother”
Review the halchos.
Connect the dots:
Women are michiyuv in all mitzvos of leil pessach.
One of the mitzvos a women is mechuyov is sippur yetziyas mitzrayim.
The mitva of sippur yetziyas mitzrayim is strucured as questions and answers.
The questions are asked to the one who tells the story of yetziyas motzrayim.
If all is correct, as stated in Shulchan Oruch, then the son (or daughter) asks the mother (if there is no father)..August 14, 2020 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #1892143n0mesorahParticipant
בנים means children. Being a masculine word, all the pronouns will be masculine. There is no difference between sons and daughters in basic jewish education. The parshah after the wise child, specifically mentions daughters.
I doubt the whole theory that the mitzvah of sippur yitziyas mitzrayim has more to do with your sons than your guests.August 14, 2020 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #1892173WolfishMusingsParticipant
are you ignoring the passuk…v’hegadita lvincha.
So, all those years that I allowed my daughter to sit at the Seder table and actively engaged her in sippur yetziyas mitzrayim…. who knew that I was being in violation of a passuk? I should have been completely ignoring her.
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