The Good Wifes Guide

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  • #597397
    shlishi
    Member

    (originally published in Housekeeping Monthly, May 1955)

    please him.

    #1108359
    aries2756
    Participant

    Shlishi, yup those were the days that the wives stayed home while the husbands made all the money and paid all her bills. So now what? Should this now be the “Good Husband’s Guide” since now in most marriages the wives work also? And in most Frum marriages most of the wive’s work more? Obviously men should learn a lesson from this and pamper their wives more often. Thanks, Shlishi.

    #1108360

    So now what? Should this now be the “Good Husband’s Guide” since now in most marriages the wives work also?

    I wouldn’t want my husband to have a ribbon in his hair when I come home from work.

    #1108361
    aries2756
    Participant

    MIS, maybe not but a nice clean yarmulka wouldn’t be bad 🙂

    #1108362
    am yisrael chai
    Participant
    #1108363
    commonsense
    Participant

    thanx shlishi, loved it! I can’t show this to my husband, i have the attitude that he had the easier day going to work. (he usually agrees with me)

    #1108364
    Health
    Participant

    Sarah Radcliff wrote a whole book similar to what was posted above. I just don’t think too many women in our generation follow the advice, even the ones who don’t work.

    #1108365

    Or perhaps we should just entitle this “How to be a good spouse” and list one, and only one, idea: Be Thoughtful. Seriously, everything here seems to fall under that, and I also don’t understand why only the wife is being told this. Also, a good wife always knows her place?!? That is *not* an idea from the Torah, unless you mean her place as an equal partner in the marriage. The way it’s presented, though, makes it sound like the OP means to take several large steps back in history to when women were treated (at least legally, if not individually) as mindless chattel in need of any male to tell them what to do, regardless of that males ability (starts to hum “I am sixteen” from the sound of music).

    #1108366
    Pac-Man
    Member

    TakeaDeepBreath: Where in the Torah does it say anything about being equal? Rav Avigdor Miller zt”l said the husband is the Captain and the wife is the second in command as his First Mate. From his Sefer “Awake My Glory”:

    1095. There cannot be two kings. The marriage relationship is two-fold. 1) The wife is submissive. This is not only Jewish but natural. There can be no harmony when there are two commanders. Without this indispensable condition, the home is disordered. “Arrogance is unbecoming a woman” – Megillah 14B. For a man it is not an ornament, but for a woman it is as if she wore a mustache. 2) The second, but equally essential foundation: a man must always demonstrate respect for his wife. This is “the way of Jewish men that… honor and support their wives in truth” as stated in the Jewish marriage contract. “He honors her more than his own body” – Yevamos 62B, Bava Metzia 59A. He is the captain, but she is the First Mate whose counsel is respected. She cannot be made a doormat, she need not beg for money, she deserves some assistance in the house chores, and the husband sides with her against his kin. He must express frequent appreciation and give words of encouragement, and he should remember his wife from time to time with gifts, big or little. Husband and wife should always say “Please” and “Thank You” and never forget to be always polite to each other.

    #1108367
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Joe:

    I was going to quote Rav Miller as well, thanks.

    The place for a wife (all other things being equal) is in the home, while the husband should be supporting the family.

    #1108368
    aries2756
    Participant

    GAW, I knew I could count on you, well said.

    BTW, the Torah also says that a man should love his wife as himself and honor/respect her more than himself. So if he considers himself the King, he must consider her the “Super King”. And as everyone knows “behind every great man, is a great woman”.

    In addition we also know that Hashem told Avrohom to listen to Sarah.

    So for anyone who wishes to put women down, or to bring some posuk from the Torah to show that men are superior, just stop. This isn’t a contest. That is NOT the Torah way or what a truly FRUM marriage is about. A truly Frum marriage is NOT about superiority it is about giving to each other and mutual love and respect, continuously.

    #1108369
    Pac-Man
    Member

    aries: No one is c’v putting anyone down. A wife being submissive to her husband is not only the Jewish way, but the natural thing.

    #1108370
    flowers
    Participant

    Mir Rosh Yeshiva, Hagaon Rav Chaim Shmulevitz Zatzal

    “Our rabbi’s teach a man to honor his wife more than he would himself, while a wife is deemed virtuous if she does the will of her husband.

    As long as the husband abides by the former and the wife by the latter, their home will be blessed with marital bliss.

    It is when they switch roles the wife demanding love and respect and the husband expecting total subservience – that the troubles begin!”

    Rav Chaim Shmulevitz Zatzal quoted in Sefer Torah Tavlin

    #1108371
    Poster
    Member

    What a nice long list. I guess one can always aspire!

    #1108372

    “his topics of conversation are more important than yours”

    is that so?

    and that sounds to me like someone is putting someone else down…

    #1108373
    aries2756
    Participant

    It is when they switch roles the wife demanding love and respect and the husband expecting total subservience – that the troubles begin!”

    So, so true. So when the husband follows the Torah guidelines and the wife follows what is natural, being a nurturer as is described in the book “The River, The Kettle & The Bird by Aharon Feldman, the marriage is a continual balance of giving – receiving (refilling), giving – receiving (refilling) etc. So no one runs on empty. Which in essence is the Torah guidelines because it is what comes naturally for men and women the Marriage builds on that premise and foundation to be a strong and successful one.

    However if you vary from the design and do what is NOT the natural. It will be chaotic and fail.

    #1108374
    am yisrael chai
    Participant

    “Don’t question his judgment or integrity.”

    Are you kidding? We believe in ??? ?????, helping refine ?????.

    #1108375
    Joseph
    Participant

    Where can reprints be requested?

    #1108376
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    why? what did you do with all your copies?

    #1108377
    Joseph
    Participant

    They were all quickly scooped up in the Ezras Noshim.

    #1108378
    Little Froggie
    Participant

    !!!!

    #1108379
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    to keep their husbands from reading it?

    #1108380
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Gosh, if I could stay home I would be more than happy to do all that. except the make-up. And my husband has always done as much in return, including making me coffee every morning (to be yotzei the mitzvah of chessed before davening). Not all those specific things, but the ones that were relevent.

    Now I just try to make sure he has a parking space because that is probably the biggest chessed one can do around here.

    #1108381
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    (originally published in Housekeeping Monthly, May 1955)

    You might want to check the Snopes article on this…

    The Wolf

    #1108382
    Joseph
    Participant

    Snopes very frequently has an agenda dismissing things without compelling evidence because of the writers own biases. And in this particular case it seems even they are equivocating rather than being entirely dismissive, even though this is one of the type of things Snopes tends to be biased against.

    #1108383
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Bah popa v’heemidan al achas: Bring beer.

    #1108384
    zogt_besser
    Participant

    There was never a magazine with the name ‘Housekeeping Monthly.’

    #1108385
    Joseph
    Participant

    Says you.

    #1108386
    golfer
    Participant

    Popa, your achas didn’t work.

    My husband never drinks beer.

    Advise.

    #1108387
    zogt_besser
    Participant

    I’m just quoting snopes and Wikipedia. Since you said those sources are suspect, I tried to find independent evidence that the magazine existed through Google, but I found nothing other than info about this story. Why do you blindly think the magazine did exist?

    #1108388
    Joseph
    Participant

    I don’t; but neither do I blindly assume it didn’t exist (and neither did Snopes even make that claim, something they’d have been sure to mention if they’d been able to determine that) simply because you can’t find evidence of it on Google 60 years later for something from almost 40 years before the web existed.

    #1108389
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Snopes very frequently has an agenda dismissing things without compelling evidence because of the writers own biases. And in this particular case it seems even they are equivocating rather than being entirely dismissive, even though this is one of the type of things Snopes tends to be biased against.

    Ah, yes… rather than address the points, you just go for the ad hominem.

    The Wolf

    #1108390
    Joseph
    Participant

    It is no “ad hominem”. What it is, is a factual observation. And if a so-called ad hominem is factual, rather relate the truth than observe some contorted convention invented in academia.

    #1108391
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    rather relate the truth than observe some contorted convention invented in academia

    And now ad hominem itself is attacked with an ad hominem argument. This is amazing 🙂

    #1108392
    Avram in MD
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Snopes very frequently has an agenda dismissing things without compelling evidence

    Actually, that claim has been thoroughly debunked by Snopes. 🙂

    #1108393
    Joseph
    Participant

    Even by its own definition it requires directing the charge on a person not an idea. But of course it is often entirely legitimate to direct a point against the conveyor or medium.

    #1108394
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    It is no “ad hominem”.

    Sure it is. Rather than addressing the points made in the Snopes article, you instead went for Snopes = biased. That the very definition of an ad hominem attack.

    The Wolf

    #1108395
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    If you’re questioning the reliability of something being reported, challenging the credibility of the reporter is very much on point.

    #1108396
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    If you’re questioning the reliability of something being reported, challenging the credibility of the reporter is very much on point.

    Actually, it’s not.

    Look, some crackpot may say that aliens with three legs and green and purple hair live on Titan (Saturn’s largest moon) and that they hold Elvis concerts three times a week. But the factuality of the information (or lack thereof) does not rest on the fact that he’s a crackpot. It rests on the evidence. The fact that he’s a crackpot is really beside the point. It all boils down to the evidence and arguments. If he can provide credible evidence for it, then it’s true, regardless of his being a crackpot or not. And if he can’t provide some evidence, then I can be comfortable dismissing his claims — again, regardless of his being a crackpot or not.

    Snopes made some valid points in their article. Pointing out that Snopes has a bias (whether true or not) is really beside the point.

    The Wolf

    #1108397
    One Liner
    Member

    I saw the original, an antique dealer showed to me.

    #1108398
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Wolf,

    It’s beside the point if they make claims which can be objectively verified. Have they done so? Which claims did they make which prove (or strongly indicate) that this didn’t exist? (FTR, I have no opinion on whether it did or didn’t.)

    #1108399
    BelieveYouMe
    Participant

    Maybe I could be of some help with the name of the magazine. Are you referring to the “Good Housekeeping”?

    #1108400
    zogt_besser
    Participant

    Joseph- the internet has information on all sorts of people, things, books, and magazines that existed before it was created. that’s not so relevant. It’s reasonable to expect to find at least a bit of evidence of Housekeeping Monthly from google if it really existed. there are archives and such.

    #1108401
    Joseph
    Participant

    zogt: There aren’t online archives (or even, necessarily, evidence) for every nook and cranny magazine that ever existed. Especially for the smaller ones. And especially if it ceased publishing a long time ago.

    At this point the conversation is moot. One Liner has testified first-hand that he personally saw a copy of the issue under discussion.

    #1108402
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    At this point the conversation is moot. One Liner has testified first-hand that he personally saw a copy of the issue under discussion.

    Yes, and calling the reliability of an anonymous (and probably joking) internet commentator into question is irrelevant, since it’s ad hominum, and doesn’t speak to his point.

    #1108403
    Joseph
    Participant

    They should teach these 15 points in every Bais Yaakov, in 12th grade. And reiterate it in seminary.

    #1108404
    Mammele
    Participant

    I’ve read elsewhere that it was a mock-up on college campuses in the seventies to promote equality — yet most of the text is probably from a magazine in the 1880s. They also mention that dryers were not common in the 50s — which is something that also gave me pause when I read it here. (The washer dryer part was added in the mockup.)

    And the photo with the article is from a different magazine cover in 1957– two years after the rules supposedly appeared.

    Joseph, you don’t help your cause when you actually expect women to take off their husband’s shoes, which IIRC even an Eved shouldn’t be asked to do.

    We can all improve in our spousal duties, but we should look for Jewish sources and be realistic.

    #1108405
    Joseph
    Participant

    Mammele: Rambam Hilchos Ishus 21:7 would actually positively instruct her on taking off the shoes. Listen, I’m not saying there can’t be some tweaks or that it needs to be taught verbatim as published above. But the Bais Yaakov’s teach all sorts of secular stuff, global history, etc. that are far from any Jewish sources. Something pretty benign as above that actually gives very helpful and wise advice on shalom bayis is certainly something to be encouraged. I don’t think anyone objects to lessons in Bais Yaakov on benign or helpful topics, say utilizing Dale Carnegie on public speaking or similar neutral sources on other topics.

    #1108406
    zogt_besser
    Participant

    Actually, the Internet does have information on nearly every nook and cranny. And besides, it’s laughable that you blindly accept the claim of an anonymous commenter to the point that you think the conversation is moot. It sounds like you have an agenda just as much as snopes does.

    #1108407
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    What kind of agenda do you think Joseph has?

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