September 25, 2011 8:34 pm at 8:34 pm #599613
Historically, the Golus of Yavan, Greece, was the introductory precursor to the Roman empire and ultimately the Western Culture – the fourth and final exile of Klal Yisroel before Moshiach comes. (See Ramban in Parshas Balak on the Posuk ‘V’Tzim Miyad Kittim’
They invented democracy, the current form of government in the Western world.
Their cultural emphasis on the pursuit of intellectual goals and glorification of man’s might (think Olympics) alongside their pursuit of pleasure to the detriment of any spiritual aspirations is a legacy that clearly continues to this day.
Now, financial markets are predicting a default by modern-day Greece of their debts with serious economic repercussions to the economies of the Western world (Hashem Yerachem).
Could this be history finally coming full circle, the long – awaited downfall of Galus Yavan, the Greco-Roman/ empire and its modern-day manifestation in the money-obsessed Western world?September 25, 2011 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #824408PeacemakerMember
Argentina also defaulted.September 25, 2011 8:39 pm at 8:39 pm #824409deiyezoogerMember
Greece as an empier fell more than 2,000 years ago.September 25, 2011 8:53 pm at 8:53 pm #824410
Argentina’s default didn’t (and was never expected to) have anywhere near the repercussions that the world leaders are petrified of today from Greece’s default as Greece is part of the Eurozone the largest trading bloc in the world.
Deiyezooger: Yes it did as a world power but culturally (and that was the main point in my post and I hope you looked up that Ramban) it has continued to exist first in the form of the Roman empire and culminating in the values of modern society which echo them.September 26, 2011 2:41 am at 2:41 am #824411squeakParticipant
Greece is not what Europe is afraid of. In fact, both Greece and Ireland essentially defaulted a while back qhen the Central Bank bailed them out (they bought their bonds).
What economists are afraid of is a default by Spain, which has a far larger economy than those two countries combined. There is no telling how bad the fallout would be if that happened.September 26, 2011 2:49 am at 2:49 am #824412PeacemakerMember
Or Italy.November 7, 2011 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #824413
Ok – I think a timely update is in order.
Check out the news today, the focus has shifted from Greece to Italy – potentially a colossal financial impact worldwide if Italy goes bust. We’re seriously in the unknown zone if that happens.
Greece = Yovon
Italy = Rome/Edom.
As per earlier post – they together embody the final Golus.
Come on – connect the dots. I think this is something very significant going on here from a Jewish History perspective.
He’s caught on to what’s happening!November 7, 2011 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #824414JotharMember
On the ball, I was thinking about this the other day and trying to rack my brains why Greece should be so important 2,000 years after its decline.
The sephardi meforshim say Greece and Rome are one and the same, and the 4th golus is the Yishmaeilim. this could be the final end of the 3rd golus, leaving the 4th to happen now.November 7, 2011 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #824415zahavasdadParticipant
Todays Rome is not the same as the Roman Empire, that Rome ceased to exist in the 500’s or so. The population was wiped out from war neglect and the Plague (especially the Plague of Justinian)
Most likely the current residents of Rome are decendents from Germanic Barbaric tribesNovember 7, 2011 8:46 pm at 8:46 pm #824416
Fair point Zahavasdad. maybe it’s only symbolic – Modern Italy representing Ancient Rome the seat of the Roman Empire and the same with Modern Greece and Yovon. Western civilisation developing from these ancient cultures (see original post) and its modern day collapse (financially) originating too from there.
Also just remembered – there’s a Chazal somewhere that talks about ‘Italia shel Yovon’ (literally Italy of Greece) – anyone know where it is?
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