December 1, 2017 8:40 am at 8:40 am #1416692litvisherchossidParticipant
I know noone likes to talk about this and get defensive and all, but it needs to be addressed. Does anyone find the current rise in anti-semitism disturbing? Particularly what’s relentlessly going on in London with swastikas and Nazi messages brazenly drawn everywhere and getting worse by the day? Yidden experiencing anti semitic remarks by shop owners or receiving harassing phone calls.
What about the rise of anti Semitism here in America? Swastikas drawn on Yidden’s garage doors or cars or sidewalk? I know we all say this always happened, but never this frequently and never was it this freely. Posting anti semitic fliers on cars in Lakewood openly pointing out JEWS who were involved with welfare scams. A certain neighborhood confronting jews about conducting minyanim in a house? Trump supporters flooding Jewish journalists inbox with hatred emails if they ever dared to speak against him. Trump himself retweeing from known anti semitic accounts and also not condemning white supremacists speaking against Jews until he was forced to?
We are so quick to speak out about the past and ask didn’t Yidden see signs and flee the country? But then we see how easy it is to ignore anti semitism since we are comfortable where we live. Are we ignoring early signs of intense Jew hatred? Is this what it looks like? There is no arguing that anti Semitism is on a steep incline all over the world and it is even admitted by many. It is also disturbing how every empire in the world tried getting rid of the Jewish nation sooner or later. Starting in Mitzrayim/Egypt throughout the generations all the way to germany with the romans, greek,Persians,spain and just about every nation the middle. Will it subside or do we need to start opening our eyes? It seems ignoring is easier than we think.December 1, 2017 9:00 am at 9:00 am #1416726
Welcome to golus.
What you describe will not end before Moshiach arrives.
Daven harder. That’s all we can do.December 1, 2017 9:42 am at 9:42 am #1416767
It is NOT Anti-semitism to have allows that disallow shuls in basements. People who live in Suburbs do not want people congregating on a residential street and of course everyone drives and takes up all the parking spaces and sometimes even block driveways because they cant find parking and are late for shul (I once saw a guy block the whole street in front of a shul because he was late for minyan and couldnt find a parking space)
The law applies to all religions, not just jewsDecember 1, 2017 10:03 am at 10:03 am #1416777CSParticipant
Also it’s worldwide so there is nowhere to run tu. I think if you want to move to the safest place, move to eretz Yisrael, were there is an extra measure of hashgocha protis. “Eretz asher einei Hashem Elokecha ba mereishis hashana ad acharis shana.”
In the past we knew this posuk but it seemed a bit incongruous with reality because we always hear of terrorist attacks. But now we see clearly how so many plots fail over there, abs how cvs, even when it is successful, they usually only manage to wound people, abs if cvs more than that, it is very few people. Contrast that with the rest of the world where one attack kills dozens of people.
I was thinking along these lines several years ago. If I wasnt on shlichus I would do the above myselfDecember 1, 2017 10:03 am at 10:03 am #1416778
ZD: The First Amendment as well as explicit federal laws prohibit municipalities from interfering with the practice is religion or prayer in the privacy of anyone’s home. Including having others come to pray at your residence. Federal law also prohibits municipalities from having zoning regulations inhibiting the opening of houses of worship.December 1, 2017 10:03 am at 10:03 am #1416779
Sorry if this sounds like defending anti-semitism, but the welfare scams kinda make sense
All over the internet, PEOPLE KNOW that a lot of orthodox Jews cheat and it makes sense to me that they are finally sick of it (please correct me if I’m wrong, since I did not hear of this “anti-semitic practices” till now)December 1, 2017 10:13 am at 10:13 am #1416797
Proportionally far far less Orthodox Jews cheat on benefits or taxes than the national average for those crimes.December 1, 2017 10:14 am at 10:14 am #1416788
I am certain that there are cases where people with shuls in homes are crossed the line in disturbing their neighbors. But what is happening in Jackson and elsewhere is not because of that. Even when the frum Jews are very careful to be quiet, to not park on the street, or when the minyan is in commercial space, they still receive tremendous pushback and government harassment. Neighbors call and complain about non-existent minyanim, about excessive parking on the street when there is none or little (far less than they have when they host parties). The only item you listed that might apply in most cases is “People who live in Suburbs do not want people congregating on a residential street.” But that is nonsense, because it doesn’t bother them when people gather for the things they like to do, like parties. It only bothers them if people congregate for worship different from theirs. And if the frum Jews are careful, which they should be and usually are, the neighbors suffer no harm whatsoever. It is all in their heads.
I don’t think it is anti-semitism per se. It is a fear of the other (non-conventional churches and mosques often face similar discrimination), of having the character of neighborhood change to that of a strange religion. But this is America, and people are free to move wherever they like. If they don’t like it, they can move and take advantage of the rising home prices that Orthodox Jews create.December 1, 2017 10:15 am at 10:15 am #1416805
I’m not sure about the statistics, but a lot is still a lot despite percentageDecember 1, 2017 10:23 am at 10:23 am #1416808
That isn’t exactly right. Federal law requires that municipalities show “a compelling interest” before enforcing zoning laws against religious institutions (other than wanting them to comply with zoning laws), and that the zoning law is the least restrictive way of achieving that interest. For example, let’s say a Town has a law stating that houses of worship must be on lots larger than 2 acres and you want to open a shul on a lot that is an acre and a half. You apply for a variance and are denied. You can then bring the Town to Court and force them to explain why they have this law.
If they answer, that they don’t want to have parking issues on the street so they want to make sure that the house of worship has sufficient parking spaces, the Court will say that the Town could have achieved that goal by simply making parking on the street illegal in front of the shul. The zoning law will then be invalidated and the Town will have to pay your attorney fees.December 1, 2017 10:23 am at 10:23 am #1416809
There isn’t a lot. It is very very little.
When those man-bites-dog cases occur, since they’re Orthodox, the media (both secular and “Jewish”) play it up and make it sound more than it is.December 1, 2017 10:23 am at 10:23 am #1416810
The reporting of Orthodox Jews committing financial crimes is similar to the reporting on Muslims committing violent crimes. When an Orthodox Jews commits a financial crime, the news notes his Orthodox affiliation (sometimes with a picture of the Orthodox community) and when a Muslim commits a violent crime, the news reports his religious affiliation.
But when an Lutheran or an Episcopalian commits a crime, their religion isn’t part of the news so no association is built up in the minds of people.December 1, 2017 11:00 am at 11:00 am #1416818
Actually many people do complain about parties, but they tend to be once not every week or every day.December 1, 2017 11:01 am at 11:01 am #1416820kitovParticipant
Jews don’t like to move.
Most Jews died in the plague of darkness
Since they didn’t want to leave Egypt.
And when the call to rebuild the second Temple
When out most stayed in Babylon.
And today when the doors of the land of isreal are open.
Most Jews in exile are waiting for moshiach to ask them to move to isreal.December 1, 2017 11:03 am at 11:03 am #1416822
But when an Lutheran or an Episcopalian commits a crime, their religion isn’t part of the news so no association is built up in the minds of people.
When a Catholic Priest is accused of molestation, that makes news
When an Evangelical is accused of something immoral that also makes newsDecember 1, 2017 11:11 am at 11:11 am #1416838
Benignuman, when a random Muslim didn’t pay his taxes or didn’t report his income when applying for social benefits, the media will usually not even carry a story altogether. If it was big enough to carry, they’ll usually never mention he’s Muslim.
If it is a random Orthodox Jew for the same crime, they’ll usually report it even if it otherwise was too small a case to be newsworthy. And they almost always find a way to stick in the story that he’s Orthodox/Hasidic/Rabbi, even though that has no more to do with the story than that he’s 6 feet tall.December 1, 2017 11:14 am at 11:14 am #1416842
People complain about parties when they get too loud or the like, and rare individuals may complain about them generally. But they don’t get legislation passed to stop parties, even weekly football watching parties or poker games. The key, though, is that there is no reason to complain unless you are being harmed in some way. It doesn’t hurt you if I have 40 people praying in my home’ if they don’t make noise outside your house, they don’t block your driveway, they don’t leave garbage on the street, etc. And if you are complaining about something that doesn’t actually hurt you, if it’s zeh nehena v’zeh lo chaser, you might want to be contemplate why you are complaining.December 1, 2017 11:14 am at 11:14 am #1416848
I think it may be because when people see such an insular people, they want to know more about them. When they do something wrong, they have a brief glimpse into their lives and are interested. Which makes it more newsworthyDecember 1, 2017 12:14 pm at 12:14 pm #1416853
“When a Catholic Priest is accused of molestation, that makes news
When an Evangelical is accused of something immoral that also makes news”
This former is true. I don’t think the latter is true unless the person is a pastor or public figure already. It is the perceived hypocrisy and sensationalism that makes it newsworthy. And the vast majority of readers don’t personally view themselves as Catholic Priests or Evangelical ministers. But if Joe Catholic is accused of molestation, his religion is not reported as part of the story (other than in passing). If Joe Evangelical is accused of a ponzi scheme, his religion is not reported as part of the story (other than in passing) and in the minds of the public they do not associate the two. Both because the reporting doesn’t stress it and because they or their close friends are Catholics or Evangelicals.December 1, 2017 12:17 pm at 12:17 pm #1416855
There used to be a shul across the street from my house , I live on a residential block and every morning everyone would drive to this shul and take up all the parking spaces on the street (And sometimes block driveways)
There is a yeshiva near my house where people double and triple park in front of it so you have to go on the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic to get around it.
Common courtesy is contangious, it seems people who go to a shul or yeshiva think that absolves them of bein-Adom-L-ChaveroDecember 1, 2017 12:18 pm at 12:18 pm #1416857apushatayidParticipant
Mucicipalities may create and enforce laws for public safety. I witnessed a municipality shut down a minyan in someones basement because it violated a number of the codes for public meeting place. It didnt matter that it was held in a private home. The person tried to fight the municipality, and lost. The judge told him that to house services temporarily, that is one thing, but to establish a permanent place of prayer they needed a permit as a public meeting place (to get the permit, the basement would have to meet the code). to his credit, the homeowner did what was necessary to bring his basement up to code. No, this was not in Jackson, or Mahwah, it was in Sullivan County NY.December 1, 2017 12:32 pm at 12:32 pm #1416878
There is a very well known protestant minister who has a megachurch in Houston , tx. During Hurricane Harvey at first he refused to open the church to flood refugees (Christians belive that chruches should be open like that) he claimed the church was flooded and then some people went down to his church and took photos and showed the chruch was fine. He was roundly roasted in the media for not opening up the church to the Hurricane Harvey flood victimsDecember 1, 2017 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #1416903
I certainly do not condone the behavior you describe, but it also doesn’t comport with what I have seen in neighborhoods that aren’t already majority Orthodox. Let me guess that you live in a neighborhood that is majority Orthodox.
In frum neighborhoods people assume that the shuls neighbors will understand (sort of a tradeoff for the convenience of living next door to shul). But of course, people should have bein adom l’chaveiro middos and not block driveways or the like.
The example of the pastor in Houston, actually makes my point. It was a pastor being hypocritical, a prominent pastor at that. It wasn’t Joe Protestant.December 1, 2017 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #1416904
The situation you describe makes sense. The rule was universal for all regular meetings (i.e. would apply to a social club too), and more importantly, did not forbid praying in the space altogether, it simply required some safety changes be made. That is a classic least restrictive means.
In Jackson and elsewhere (many places in Rockland over the years), the rules were designed to stop shuls altogether and were not narrowly tailored to prevent the harm the Town was claiming the law was meant to prevent.December 1, 2017 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #1416923
The United States Department of Justice has successfully sued and stopped towns in Rockland and elsewhere from enforcing restrictive zoning regulations against Shuls.December 2, 2017 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #1416945litvisherchossidParticipant
@benignuman-There is no comparison between a muslim committing terrorism to an orthodox jew on welfare. It is mostly if not all terrorist attacks that are committed by muslims, it is not mostly or all welfare scams that are done by orthodox jews. Even if all jews would have scammed welfare that would still be like half a percent of all americans in america. We are such a minority that it would not even budge anyone. There are literally millions of people in this country and there are so many who are on unemployment or social security and still hold full time off the books jobs. It is just that when jews are “caught” then it is newsworthy and a chance to ridicule and display them on the front covers while the anti semites “load up”.
WE cant keep giving excuses for all these incidents as things that will always be around. We know that anti semitism has always been around but when it starts getting “freely” out of control and people arent afraid to hand out fliers to peoples cars portraying orthodox jews as criminals labeling”these jews committed fraud”, or drawing swastikas all over garages and sidewalks with haunting messages, then we have to point out to ourselves, “THIS IS anti semitism. Not just some hooligans.
Also @shlucha- everyone has heir excuse for not moving, besides even E”Y is golus right now Moshiach isnt here. There would also be nowhere to run to if under attack in Israel. Its just that at least you would know you are in your land that was promised to you, and thats the most you could do.December 2, 2017 7:36 pm at 7:36 pm #1417015
People who say they are holier are put to a higher level. Thats why priests or pastors who are found to have done something wrong are ridiculed for misdeeds. Jews especially frum jews , claim to be the light among the nations. People expect you top be the light among the nations and that means not doing the wrong things like welfare fraud or tax evasion. When we are not the light among the nations, we will be reminded thatDecember 4, 2017 10:27 pm at 10:27 pm #1418487yehudayonaParticipant
Joseph, where do you get your statistics about the ethnicity of people who cheat the government?December 4, 2017 11:25 pm at 11:25 pm #1418497
YY: National incarceration rates, including breakdown by crime category, are readily available. Orthodox Jewish incarceration rates can be gleaned from organizations such as the Aleph Institute.
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