The Next Lakewood

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  • This topic contains 42 replies, has 19 voices, and was last updated by  Joseph 2 years ago.
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  • #1395838

    Joseph
    Participant

    Which up and coming town is “the next Lakewood”?

    #1395888

    smerel
    Participant

    Jackson is up and coming but it won’t be like Lakewood

    Which new community was ever just like the old one?

    #1395892

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I’m sorry to say but i think it’s the 5 towns 🙁

    #1395919

    Joseph
    Participant

    The Five Towns might be the next Teaneck; definitely not the next Lakewood.

    Will Jackson’s frum population explode in far greater numbers?

    #1396140

    TheGoq
    Participant

    Dear Joseph
    Growing up oot we were well aware we were not living in the mecca of American Yiddishkeit and guess what we did not care, we played, learned, and grew up having pride in where we came from because we were raised, taught, and surrounded by good mentchicht people who instilled in us the values that they held dear the same Torahdik values that matter to people in every place that Yidden inhabit in this world. It’s wonderful that you love Lakewood and Brooklyn but not everything has to be a competition or a comparison.

    “Who is rich? He who rejoices in his portion.”

    #1396138

    chymee
    Participant

    My warm wishes are that, wherever Yidden choose to live should burst its borders, כן ירבה וכן יפרוץ, we deserve to live in a little bit of dignity, so long we behave & do not create havoc & חילול השם,
    Good luck everyone

    #1396337

    Mammele
    Participant

    No two communities are exactly the same, and no one community is the same as it was 10 years ago.

    But if we go by sheer numbers, the new Town of Palm Tree (KJ/Monroe) and the surrounding villages probably have the most potential for explosive growth. Kein Yirbu.

    #1396343

    Joseph
    Participant

    Mammele: What kind of growth is likely in the expanded KJ?

    #1396406

    Mammele
    Participant

    I believe its population in 10 years will rival that of Lakewood today. (My numbers may be off, but this means going from somewhere in the 25,000 range ka”h to 70k or so.) And while my “guess” is as good as yours, I’d say about 1/2 of that growth will be “natural growth” and the rest will be from many Chasidim relocating from Brooklyn and their expanding families.

    Additionally, some other Chasidim besides Satmar might slowly but surely find Monroe hospitable due to its affordable cost of housing and many amenities. Satmar in its variations will probably lose the monopoly there, it’s just a question of time.

    Just to be clear, I’m not just talking about the proposed Town of Palm Tree, which will most likely win in this week’s referendum, but the many large developments, and new individual home-buyers cropping up in Woodbury and beyond (outside the proposed Town borders).

    I wish them lots of Hatzlacha, but hope Moshiach will come sooner and my predictions will be for naught…

    #1396432

    Joseph
    Participant

    How big is the Chasidish population in the greater Monroe area, outside of the borders of KJ/Palm Tree?

    #1396457

    jakob
    Participant

    Cleveland is the next lakewood. it is what lakewood was approximately 25 years ago, a simple town devoted to torah & growth that people are moving to so they can devote themselves to a life of torah & raise a torah family, Like Harav Aharon Kotler ZT”L Devoted his life to doing BUT Today Lakewood sadlt will never be that pure torah town it used to be. go visit lakewood today & see a business city like brooklyn with the fanciest restaurants & luxury clothing stores etc….

    if you want to devote your married life to torah i would suggest moving to Cleveland or to a out of town community kollel that has no distractions of gashmius that is now filled all over Lakewood.

    may Hashem give you Hatzlacha & guide you to the right community

    #1396450

    Mammele
    Participant

    Honestly, I think someone living in KJ (Kj chusid?) is more qualified to answer. If I’m forced to guess I’d say about 1,000 full-time residents. But I could be way-off either way.

    #1396477

    Shtika
    Participant

    I’ve been trying to move to Baltimore for some time. I think it’s very similar to Lakewood, just not too yeshivish

    #1396642

    Joseph
    Participant

    Mammele, is there already a notable or sizable non-Satmar demographic in KJ and/or in its vicinity?

    #1396685

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    The Five Towns might be the next Teaneck; definitely not the next Lakewood.

    Joe, I thought the connection for the “next lakewood” was where will all the Brooklynites move to next just like the moved to lakewood until it exploded

    I would be happy if I thought the OP was talking about Torah

    #1396707

    Joseph
    Participant

    CA: The OP is multifaceted, including talking about Torah.

    In either event, I gather the Five Towns is picking up the Queens-type of guys not so much the Flatbush or Lakewood types. How fast is the 5T growing and how large is its current frum population? I understand that housing in the 5T is very expensive.

    #1396717

    Mammele
    Participant

    Joseph: no. It’s just based on different observations that I’d prefer not to elaborate upon.

    What I didn’t mention clearly is that there are thousands of homes in the planning stages around KJ. So currently the numbers of Chasidim living out of the KJ/Town of Palm Tree borders may be relatively low, but it’s about to explode. (There are vacation homes in the area as well, for better or worse.)

    And KJ has no traffic problems unlike most growing Jewish neighborhoods. So its potential for growth is huge – especially once the NYC water pipeline starts flowing.

    #1396818

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    they want to make a new town (called the 6th town) not sure the name but i know a lot of people are opposed to it

    I have noticed a lot of people from flatbush are moving to the area (possibly they moved to Far Rockaway, not sure though)

    #1396842

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Joseph, is your knowledge of everything as poor as it is about the 5 Towns? You make It sound like a small place that could be something else if it grew
    1. It already has a very large frum community
    2.It has numerous shuls, ranging from yeshivish to MO.
    The largest, the YI of Woodmere has close to
    1500 member families (7 daily shacharis minyanim , including Shabbos)
    3. It has numerous yeshivas, with new ones opening every year
    4. Yes, Lawrence is very expensive and Woodmere can be expensive. However reasonable housing can be found in Cedarhurst , Inwood and parts of Hewlet

    #1397439

    apushatayid
    Participant

    South Fallsburg. For 10 months of the year anyways.

    #1397492

    Joseph
    Participant

    You mean for 2 months of the year.

    #1397556

    akuperma
    Participant

    What makes something a “Lakewood” is that it is reasonably close to major Jewish centers, and not expensive – and attrats a community of Bnei Torah. The “not expensive” part rules out downstate New York and New Jersey. There are some possibilities elsewhere. Baltimore is cheap, and increasingly the community within the city limits is become haredi (it helped that someone just planted an hasidic kollel) while the modern prefer the suburbs or Washington. There are places in upstate New York and Pennsylvania that could manage. There are many possibilities in the “sunbelt” (blue states, tending to lack the ultra-secular bigotry that often is a problem in blue states). While the frum community isn’t into central planning, all it takes is some people with money to “plant” a yeshiva in some place affordable but still in a day trip of a major community.

    #1397680

    apushatayid
    Participant

    No. I mean 10 months of the year. The Lakewood created by R’ Ahron Kotler, is replicated by South Fallsburg, for 10 months of the year.

    #1398210

    jakob
    Participant

    only 25 years ago & all the years back since Rav Aharon Kotler ZT”L Opened up BMG in Lakewood it used to be as quiet & kodesh as south fallsburg is today. a small community totally devoted to torah & even the working parents do work in Avodas Hakodesh.

    its a shame that kedusha left lakewood & instead was replaced with gashmius

    #1398886

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    Baltimore is the next Lakewood.
    Very affordable housing. Safe. Shomrim, Hatzolah (4 ambulances), Chaverim, Seasons and 7 Mile Market.
    4 Chadorim, 3 girls schools, 4+ yeshivas, solid Eruv, 43+ shuls including MO, Yeshivah, Sefardi, Chassidish. 4 full time Kollelim – 3 Litvish and a growing Chassidishe Kollel.
    Baltimore City in particular is interested in people moving.

    #1398885

    takahmamash
    Participant

    You do realize, of course, that the sketchiest part of Tel Aviv has more kedusha in a fingernail size piece of dirt than all these other places mentioned here?

    You do realize, of course, that when Mashiach comes soon, with Hashem’s help, that all the places here will be ghost towns?

    #1398903

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    BaltimoreMaven

    Enjoy the double taxation of Baltimore City. If I move there, it’ll be to the county.

    #1399344

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    Yitzy: it’s true that Baltimore City property taxes are higher than in the County. That just drives down purchase price in the City. Brand new 5 bedroom homes are being built now for $260k on Fords Lane. They will be worth $300k within a couple of years. And roughly half of the frum community already lives in the County and half in the City – doesn’t matter to me where you live – just come and enjoy the lack of traffic, fresh air, 3 hour drive to BP (if you have a Chasuna – in and out same day). Or take Monsey Tours Bus which goes from BP to Baltimore twice a week.

    #1399471

    ftresi
    Participant

    Nobody mentioned Waterbury. Waterbury is the next Lakewood. Houses there are very inexpensive and the community is very yeshivish.

    #1399461

    jakob
    Participant

    i agree with baltimore maven

    but lets not forget that baltimore is approximately 15 years behind lakewood, versus cleveland 23 years behind etc… meaning in 15 years if baltimore continues growing at their current pace then baltimore can be just as much traffic & squashed in growth as lakewood is today besides the other destructive gashmius that has removed the kedusha from the original ihr Hatorah that Lakewood used to be of Harav Aharon Kotler ZT”L Which was filled with torah, simplicity, ruchnius etc…. Baltimore is blessed to still be filled with simplicity & Torah but not as holy as Cleveland which is even more Kadosh & filled with plain simple people even more devoted to ruchnius & torah etc…

    #1410657

    Burnt Steak
    Participant

    Aren’t Baltimore and Cleveland major cities that are much larger than Lakewood?? If you include the non religious than, Baltimore and probably also Cleveland already have a larger Jewish population than Lakewood. Also I wouldn’t exactly call Baltimore safe. The murder rate is double that of Chicago and as of this writing there have been more homicides in Baltimore than in New York city. The Charm City still sounds better than the Mistake by the Lake.

    #1410694

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    Burnt Steak: why be so nasty and negative? You do realize that people in NY and NJ (while not being beaten up by police, spray painted or mugged) enjoy smog, double parking, opposite side parking and many other enjoyable aspects of their expensive lives? We are not saying that Baltimore is Gan Eden. We are not saying it is crime free. We are saying it is a very inexpensive place to live and that factor, combined with the many many other ma’alos (Seasons, Eruv, cost of living, multiple Yeshivas and girls schools) vastly outweighs the other, potentially negative factors. Yes there is crime but in our neighborhood it is no more than, and likely much lower than, Boro Park / Flatbush / Williamsberg. The job opportunities, being next to Washington DC, are attractive. The opportunity for starting “the Next Lakewood” is available – the only question is who will be the first smart group of people to take advantage?

    #1410716

    Joseph
    Participant

    Boro Park / Flatbush / Williamsburg have a negligible crime rate. It is certainly lower than your Baltimore. And Boro Park / Flatbush / Williamsburg have many many more maailos for a Yid than Baltimore could even reach 10% of.

    Any NYC has a bigger job market than any other metro area. Jewish and overall.

    #1410725

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    Joseph:

    Thanks for your (factually unsupported) statements. You are, of course, invited to Baltimore to experience it yourself and see the much higher quality of life, clean air and relaxed atmosphere here. Yes of course NY has 10x the excitement, 10x the mosdos, 10x the tickets, 10x the pollution, 10x the piled up garbage on sidewalks, 10x the machlokes over Eruv and 10x the parking tickets one can find in Baltimore. You seem to have missed my point. When balancing the ma’alos and chisronos, Baltimore wins hands down.

    #1410726

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    I neglected to add: I challenge Joseph to a scientific study – compare the reported crime in BP/FB/WB to that in Pikesville on a per-Frum-Jew basis over the last 5 years. If you can’t support your conjecture with facts and real statistics, we will have to agree to disagree.

    #1410730

    Burnt Steak
    Participant

    I completely agree with you that Baltimore is better than NY and NJ. Baltimore and Cleveland are wonderful options because of what they have to offer. I encourage everyone to leave the greater NYC area and move to a more livable place.

    I assumed that by the next Lakewood, this thread was talking about a very small community that has little to none Jewish life and then transforming it into a place of Jewishness. That would disqualify Baltimore and Cleveland as places to be the next “Lakewood”.

    Baltimore and Cleveland have great Jewish histories and saying that either one of them can be the new “Lakewood” is flat out insulting the history of those respective cities. Its disrespectful to Ner Israel and Telz Cleveland to suggest that they don’t currently have any great Torah centers. Personally I think its better for those communities to have natural growth instead of having transplants from New York ignore how the city has operated and decided that they had to do things their way.

    I have a a lot of family that currently live in Baltimore and have been in Baltimore since the 1950s. I also have friends who are from Cleveland as well. I don’t have anything against the city, but regional rivalries encourage me to rip on those two cities. I hope the Ravens never have a winning season again.

    #1410753

    Joseph
    Participant

    The Jewish neighborhoods of Boro Park / Flatbush / Williamsburg have a lower crime rate than Jewish Baltimore neighborhoods and, unquestionably, a far far higher ruchniyos conducive lifestyle than Baltimore.

    #1411324

    kj chusid
    Participant

    Hi,due to overcrowding in the Kj area many ppl have expanded into blooming grove, the zalis are building a new shul there. There are also a bunch of developments in places all around Monroe

    #1414964

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Baltimoremaven, there is a news story today that officials in Carrol County Maryland, at the recommendation of their Sherrif, has cancelled all school trips into Baltimore because it’s too dangerous. Baltimore’s mayor says crime is out of control and their had been 300 homicides this year.
    Comments?

    #1414970

    BaltimoreMaven
    Participant

    Joseph has decided to sponsor school trips to Baltimore for all children in his nursery school class. Wherever he lives.

    #1414986

    lakewoodbubby
    Participant

    As an old time Lakewood resident I’d like to tell Baltimore, Cleveland and any other communities: “Be careful what you pray for.” We in Lakewood would always encourage friends and relatives to come live in Lakewood, but that didn’t work out very well, did it? Our old Lakewood lifestyle was ruined and we’ve just become a new Brooklyn. Maybe it would have happened anyway. Who knows? I have also heard nice things about Cleveland, but just let it grow naturally. That should be good enough and you will have more control over the values that you want to maintain.

    #1415117

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Am I the only one who thinks that highly urban areas like Baltimore can’t be “the next Lakewood?”

    #1415155

    Joseph
    Participant

    Lakewood is Lakewood because of the Yeshiva. Without another Yeshiva similar to BMG, there cannot be another Lakewood.

    If not for the Yeshiva, Lakewood wouldn’t be what Lakewood is.

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