Home › Forums › Decaffeinated Coffee › The Pope
- This topic has 53 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 10 months ago by YW Moderator-73.
March 15, 2013 12:22 am at 12:22 am #608610
As a non-Jew, I am curious to know what you Jews think of the new Pope. Thank you. I very much look forward to reading your responses.March 15, 2013 3:25 am at 3:25 am #965532
He sounds like a great guy. Definitely a lot more humble than the last and much more of a people person. I think there’s potential for him to achieve a lot of good in the world. He doesn’t seem like the kind of guy to get corrupted by power. But, we’ll just have to wait and see if he uses it properly.March 15, 2013 3:25 am at 3:25 am #965533playtimeMember
From a personal and theological perspective, I really couldn’t care less about the pope. But for my christian brothers and sisters, I am really proud for them. I don’t know who the other contenders were, but it looks like they aced choosing this pope.
He seems very humble and worthy of such a post (no pun intended)- the simple wooden necklace he wears, and leading a hardly-material life.
The fact that he is a traditional conservative means a lot to me (since we are very much in sync on about every issue out there), so that the leading Rabbis could continue to work closely with the Vatican on educational and social issues.March 15, 2013 4:07 am at 4:07 am #965534
I am the popa.
Also, you are not a non-jew; you are a troll. There is a difference. The difference that you are a frum jew who thinks it is funny to troll us. And it might be funny; but you have to say some funny things, not just be a retard.March 15, 2013 4:15 am at 4:15 am #965535
But for my christian brothers and sisters, I am really proud for them
What narishkeit is this? They are not your brothers and sisters. If you give that title to every human, what title do you save for your family, the am hanivchar, the bnei yisroel?March 15, 2013 4:22 am at 4:22 am #965536playtimeMember
I just read three posts, and was taken aback by all of them.
Lo and behold, they were all posted by you.
Corrigible, completely retarded, perhaps not a woman, between mean and vicious, and way over the top.March 15, 2013 4:23 am at 4:23 am #965537sammy16Member
We should hack his ip and see who he really is.March 15, 2013 4:26 am at 4:26 am #965538wanderingchanaParticipant
May G-d bless and keep the Pope… far away from us!March 15, 2013 5:16 am at 5:16 am #965539
Thank you. That’s ok, I realize that some of you are kids. Thank you “talmud”March 15, 2013 5:21 am at 5:21 am #965540
You’re getting better, getting better. I could give you some lessons, but I think I should charge you.
Isn’t that a wonderful idea? I should give trolling lessons. How much would you be willing to pay?March 15, 2013 5:45 am at 5:45 am #965541Mobe613Member
I think Popa is the Pope. Hopefully with his new job he will be too busy to keep posting on YWN.March 15, 2013 6:15 am at 6:15 am #965542aproudbygParticipant
well popa i agree with you and i dont,yes of course chalila we should compare oursleves to goyim,i mean we are princes and princeses of Hashem! but then again we all do come from avraham and sara ( three abrahamic reliogions so we are atleast cousins if not brothers and sisters 😉March 15, 2013 11:58 am at 11:58 am #965543
In Spanish and Italian the word for Pope is “PAPA”March 15, 2013 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #965545
We wish him well on his work, and many Jewish authorities already congratulated him and expressed their respect and friendship.
Are you a catholic? I am also curious. I have read on newspapers the proper way to address him is pope Francis and not “Francis the First”. Is there a reason for that?March 15, 2013 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #965546
“but you have to say some funny things, not just be a retard.”
STOP SAYING THAT WORD!!March 15, 2013 2:53 pm at 2:53 pm #965547lakewhutParticipant
if jasonx isn’t jewish and wants to kknow. we don’t really care as long as he isn’t spreading libels and slander against jewsMarch 15, 2013 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #965548The Kanoi Next DoorMember
The new Pope seems like a good guy, and I think it’s a good sign that, to quote AP, “Just hours after he was elected the first non-European pope in history, Francis sent a letter to Rome’s chief rabbi Riccardo di Segni, saying he hoped to “contribute to the progress that relations between Jews and Catholics” have seen since the 1962-1965 Second Vatican Council.” But only time will tell for certain.
You do realize that that will only encourage him, right?March 15, 2013 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #965549
Youre right but it really bothers me so much. I don’t care so much about telling popa becasue I know that no matter what I say, he will not stop. I would just like other people to realize how hurtful and insensitive that word it!March 15, 2013 3:26 pm at 3:26 pm #965550
I would be more interested in the Popes relationship with the jews of Buenos Aires than of Rome.
He is the first pope to come from a city with a very large jewish poopulation (Even larger Than Krakow before the war)March 15, 2013 3:39 pm at 3:39 pm #965551
Popa, do you have ruach hakodesh? How else would you know he’s a frum Jew trolling? I see no reason to think he’s not telling the truth. I’m surprised we don’t see more non-Jews on this site — we’re less than 1% of the population, and the whole world seems to be obsessed with Jews.
About the use of the term “retard,” what else does derech eretz (as in, derech eretz kadmah laTorah) mean other than to abide by the basic standards of politeness and decency in our host societies? Isn’t it pretty universally frowned upon (outside of schoolchildren and fratboys) to use the term “retard” or “retarded” as a derogatory adjective? If so, then how can any frum Jew justify using such language?
As for the Pope, although Jews generally consider Catholicism both heresy and idolatry, some Jews figure that since the world is divided among secularists and religious people, and Catholics and Orthodox Jews share some values (regarding things like euthanasia and gay marriage), and reinvigorated Church would be a good thing.
I’m not sure about that myself — perhaps the less successful the church is, the more likely a Noahide movement could spread among non-Jews and lead them on a the true path.
On a practical level, the Vatican is widely believed to have many holy Jewish artefacts from ancient times, so it’d be nice to get those things back. If Francis did that, many Jews would be very happy with him. I’d also be pleased if the Vatican took a less pro-Palestinian stand, or just kept its mouth shut on Mideast politics.March 15, 2013 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #965552
While many belive the Vatican has artifacts from he Beis Hamigdosh, its very unlikely that they do. They do have other relics though from afterwards
The city of Rome was abandoned by Emperor Constatine and left to its own defenses was sacked many times most famously by the Vandals and Visigoth. Its likely that during one of these sackings, the artifacts were taken and melted by the Barbarians. The Colesseum itself is only about 20% original as most of it was ransacked as wellMarch 15, 2013 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #965553
shnitzy wants to know why he hasn’t been thanked for his feedback.March 15, 2013 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #965554
My great-grandfather pretended to be a foreign minister and got into the Vatican. This was right after the second world war. He saw golden spoons that were labeled as being from the Bais Hamikdash. They would never let on that they have them to the outside world though…March 15, 2013 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #965555
Thank you shnitzy.March 15, 2013 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #965556
yytz get off your high horse, either he is a troll or he is genuine, if he is genuine and you painted the religious jewish world as a bunch of people who despise the church calling it “both heresy and idolatry” (while according to reputable opinions, for nonjews it is neither), and yet hypocritically support them because of the Vatican’s battles against euthanasia and gay marriage, the one lacking derech eretz (@JasonX: proper manners) and seichel (@JasonX: wit, common sense) is not Popa.
@JasonX there is no central authority for Judaism, as I am sure you already know. Of course as you already know, this is the internet and everything you read on the internet should be taken with a grain – or a pinch – of salt. I am sure you have Jewish friends and neighbours in real life and I am equally sure none of them ever harassed or insulted you and your religion. We treasure relations with other human beings, including Catholics, and we rejoice that in the last 50 years, friendship and mutual respect has reached unprecedented levels. Enjoy your weekend.March 15, 2013 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #965557
Me:”perhaps the less successful the church is, the more likely a Noahide movement could spread among non-Jews and lead them on a the true path.”
On the other hand, maybe the more religious the world becomes, the more open to Noahidism (or Judaism) people will be. Also, in the meantime (before the spread of Noahidism and the coming of Moshiach), Xians’ belief and trust in G-d and prayer and cultivation of brotherly love and humility (all important Jewish values) will probably be of much benefit to the individuals involved, despite their theological errors. So I guess a religious Jew could reasonably wish the Catholics well in reinvigorating and spreading their faith (among secular non-Jews.) I’m not sure what my own view is…March 15, 2013 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #965558
I read all of the comments and many of them were very interesting and thank you for the feedback. One person asked about Pope Francis’s name. My understanding is that until there is a second Pope the name does not change to “the first” because maybe there will not be another Pope with the same name. Thank you “shnitzy” again. I understand that we have different beliefs and part of what I admire about the Jewish faith is that people are so strong in their beliefs. I have always looked up to Judaism and that is why it was shocking to me to see some rude behavior come from a people I in a way look up to. All the best! Over and out.March 15, 2013 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #965559sharpMember
We shall see, what we shall see. Time will tell.March 15, 2013 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #965561
Jasonx, you are very welcome.
fkelly, are you jason as well? 😉 :P.March 15, 2013 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #965562
JasonX- take into account that you’re not getting an accurate representation of us here. I’m very different in real life, as I know who I’m talking to. Everyone is suspicious here that other sn are fake. For all you know, I’m fake and am really an old chinese grandfather. Hey- I shouldn’t have told you that.March 15, 2013 5:40 pm at 5:40 pm #965563
Nope shnitzy, but you seemed so sad so I decided to thank you.March 15, 2013 5:46 pm at 5:46 pm #965564
okay, okay. That gets a *Shnitzy hug*. 😛March 15, 2013 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #965565
I’m feeling touched 😉
Hey! Was that my prize??March 15, 2013 6:28 pm at 6:28 pm #965567☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Zahavasdad, I met someone who claimed that he saw items from the Beis Hamikdash in the vatican.March 15, 2013 6:30 pm at 6:30 pm #965568
Yes Gamanit, I realize that it’s only the internet. You should only judge others who you meet in person and in general the Jewish people I know are the nicest.March 15, 2013 6:39 pm at 6:39 pm #965569
I’m sorry, Daniela — I didn’t mean to sound offensive, and I should have mentioned the existence of other opinions. I don’t either “support” the church or not support it; I was just pointing out why some Jews might support them or not. I agree with you that mutual respect has grown over the years and that this is a good thing.
I do appreciate the new Pope’s history of caring about the poor and speaking out for policies helping them, combined with social conservatism — a combination you don’t see very often in the US, at least among politicians.March 15, 2013 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #965570
Zahavasdad, I met someone who claimed that he saw items from the Beis Hamikdash in the vatican.
Several problems with that, One he “Claimed” without proof I dont put any stock in this.
There are jewish items in the Vatican, Ive seen them myself, but many are mismarked and mistranslated. I am sure you have heard of the Famous Michaelangelo Statue of Moses (Its not in the Vatican, but near the Colesseum) where Michaelangelo thought Moses had horns and made a scuplture of him with horns.
The Terms THE Jewish Temple (Beis Hamingdosh) and FROM a Jewish Temple (could be any shul) are easy to mistakeMarch 15, 2013 7:05 pm at 7:05 pm #965571WolfishMusingsParticipant
While it is certainly possible that there are vessels from the Second Bais HaMikdash hidden away in the Vatican, I believe it is unlikely.
First of all, the Romans who conqured Jerusalem in 70 were not Christians. If they were Christians, they *might* have kept certain things (such as the menorah, for example) around out of respect for their “parent religion” (especially since, at that point, they considered themselves just another sect of Judaism). But these weren’t Christians – they were pagans. Rome would not be Christianized for another few centuries. It’s difficult to say that the pagan Roman emporers would have kept all this treasure around for centuries without melting it down and using the gold/silver for their own purposes.
Another fact to consider is that Rome has been sacked six times since the destruction of the second Bais HaMikdash.
It was sacked in 410 by the Visigoths
It was sacked again in 455 by the Vandals
It was sacked yet again in 546 by the Goths
And yet again in 846 by Arabs
And again in 1084 by the Normans
And yet again in 1527 by the Holy Roman Empire
I would find it very hard to believe that even if the pagan Romans held on to the gold and silver of the Bais HaMikdash that it would have survived the three barbarian sacks of 410-546 and the latter sackings as well.
Does the Vatican have very old Judaic artifacts? Almost certainly. But I’d be highly skeptical of believing that they have any large major artifacts (such as the aron, menorah, etc.) or anything of any significant size and material value.
The WolfMarch 15, 2013 8:56 pm at 8:56 pm #965572☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
ZD, there was some evidence, but more importantly for me, I knew the person and trusted him.
I understand that this won’t mean anything to you.March 15, 2013 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #965573WIYMember
They just let some random Jewish guy look at priceless stolen Jewish artifacts from the Beis Hamikdash?March 15, 2013 9:57 pm at 9:57 pm #965574
As I said, my great-grandfather saw the golden spoons there.March 15, 2013 10:11 pm at 10:11 pm #965575
I am sure you trust the person and I am sure he belived he saw the Kaylim, But its really unlikely he did see the Keyllim from the Beis Hamingdush as opposed to Keylim for a Shul in Midevil times which is what it was likely to beMarch 15, 2013 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #965576
fkelly, nope, just a bonus. You’re still not quite there yet…
Although, if you take it as one, you’ll save me the trouble of having to make one for you.March 16, 2013 9:07 pm at 9:07 pm #965577
Excuse me Jason, as no doubt you know, before Albino Luciani, no one had chosen a new papal name in over a thousand year. In 1978, when the senior cardinal announced “Habemus Papam” and plenty of TVs broadcast it live, he very clearly stated about Luciani “qui sibi nomen imposuit Johannis Pauli Primi” (who decreed for himself the name of John Paul the First).
I wonder if you were perhaps mislead by the absence of this piece of info on Wikipedia, but if you scroll down, you will see a photo of his tombstone which has in large capital letters JOHANNES PAULUS I PP. Additionally you don’t seem to have noticed that Wojtyla was announced (live on TV worldwide) as Johannis Pauli: at that time I was explained (by the same catholic friends of mine who now express surprise at the change in ceremonial) that the numeral is omitted if the former pope bore the same name.
PS my respects, Popa. I would not have guessed he does not watch TV.March 17, 2013 3:33 am at 3:33 am #965578
Oooh I’m getting excited now for what my prize will be!!March 17, 2013 3:47 am at 3:47 am #965579
You’ve got a ways to get there my friend…save your excitement…March 17, 2013 3:50 am at 3:50 am #965580
🙁 but…March 17, 2013 3:53 am at 3:53 am #965581
*guilt trip*March 17, 2013 3:56 am at 3:56 am #965582
That was the point, I’m so glad you realized it!
And yes, you should feel guilty!March 17, 2013 4:00 am at 4:00 am #965583
Once you start like that, it kinda fades…:P
It was the frownieface that did it…
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.