August 18, 2019 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #1776133SMSParticipant
I want to giver my wife a get without prolonging the process. I need a Rabbi that will guide me in this direction an not try to persuade me to change my mindAugust 18, 2019 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #1776158
Does your wife agree with you and she wants a Get?August 18, 2019 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #17761711Participant
This isn’t appropriate for a public forum. The מזבח cries when there’s no shalom bayis.August 18, 2019 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1776178akupermaParticipant
If the husband and wife are in agreement on all issues, the process of the “Get” and the government’s divorce is quick, easy and not expensive. Unfortunately (well, for lawyers, fortunately) that is not the case in most divorces.August 18, 2019 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1776179
🙄August 18, 2019 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1776180
(Meant for the OP not for joe)August 18, 2019 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #1776166
The easiest way to procure a rabbi who will facilitate the Get and not try to change your mind is to already have completed a civil divorce, custody and alimony arrangements (if need be) and no no longer be living under the same roof.
Rabbis generally accept those circumstances as a fait accompli. As a family law attorney who has handled divorces for many decades I am speaking form my clients’ experiences. I and a number of Jewish divorce attorneys keep a file of Rabbis who can move things along.
Locally, I use a Chabad rabbi (multi generation family in the community). He has one quick phone call with both divorcing parties, arranges a convenient date and brings in a scribe from NY and supplies the eidim from his school staff.
From start to finish can be as quick as ten days,
Some clients don’t deal with a Rabbi, instead they call a Beis Din directly.
Unlike years ago, now one must make sure the Get is issued by an authority recognized by the Rabbanut in Israel if there is a chance of either remarriage there or additional children that may be born who might want to marry in Israel in the future.August 18, 2019 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #1776233
The system you describe might work, but there are drawbacks. I know virtually nothing about your state. But in NY, there is a get law. This requires the obstacles for remarriage be removed prior to the civil divorce. And the typical beis din requires a resolution of the affairs by agreement or by beis din arbitration prior to the get. This is not mandated by law or halacha, but one would need to have his head examined if proceeding to the get without an agreement.
Any beis din with a moral compass will inquire whether there had been effort to reconcile before proceeding with the get. There is just variability how much of an issue they make of this. And one side will often prevent the get from proceeding quickly with the array of delay tactics, among which is the “I prefer shalom bayis – let’s go for therapy”.
But to be clear, there are instances in which a couple makes a mutual decision to part ways, reaches agreement on all issues with minimal fanfare, and seeks a “quick get”. And my experience suggests there are several batei din around that accommodate that quite well. There is also a phenomenon often called a “get beis din” which is convened to accomplish only the get itself. It avoids all the litigation that keeps many other batei din busy. This tends to be the sofer who serves as a dayan, and two others who join in to complete the beis din of 3.August 18, 2019 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #1776241
” the process of the “Get” and the government’s divorce is quick, easy and not expensive. ”
I know you are an American who lives in Israel. I assume your comment about the government’s divorce is referring to America.
Every jurisdiction in the USA has different rules and timetables for divorce. I am licensed and practice family law in 4 states, mostly in CT.
In CT, a divorce decree cannot be granted less than 90 days after filing a suit for divorce. The couple must have gone through counseling prior to the divorce being granted. Parenting/Co-parenting classes are also required if there are minor children involved.
I have seen many a couple get before a judge after the 90 day wait and be asked if they had been to room XXX and had there counseling approved as well as a certificate for the court approve parenting classes. This comes as a shock to many, as they thought if they presented an agreement it was just rubber stamped and the divorce decree issued.
Furthermore, in CT, a judge has the right to reserve decision in any civil case for up to 120 days after the conclusion of the trial. I have seen judges use the threat of a delay to try to get clients to settle. This happened to one of my clients last year. He had offered his wife an equal share of everything after an 8 year marriage, they had no children. The wife wanted more and wouldn’t settle. They ended up with a 4 day trial. After the sides rested, the judge again asked the parties to try to settle. The wife said no. The judge reminded her he could hold judgement for up to 120 days. In fact, he held judgement for 112 days.
The longest civil divorce I handled was in Florida. The wife wanted to financially decimate the disabled husband. He had a multi-million dollar settlement from an accident and had not been expected to live more than a couple of years. Apparently he didn’t die fast enough for the wife’s liking so she sued for divorce. The case took more than 5 years. and more than $400,000 in legal fees were racked up. there were no children and all real property was owned by a family trust. It was just about stocks, bonds, cash and pensions. The wife died within 3 months after the divorce ended. It is 9 years later and the disabled husband is still alive.August 18, 2019 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #1776243
@The Little I Know
I am also licensed in NY and do some work there, generally in Westchester County and upstate, not the city or Long Island,
I know about the Get Law. Any Civil Divorce I handle that involves Jewish clients has as part of the agreement that a Get will be obtained within X amount of time and be paid for by Y party. This agreement removes the impediment to remarriage and has satisfied the judges I have appeared before (I use this in CT also). I had a husband who refused to make the appointment for the Get as agreed in the Civil Divorce (I represented the wife) I hauled him back before the divorce judge on a contempt motion. The judge told him that if the terms of the divorce were not complied with the now ex-husband would be held in contempt, fined and jailed. The judge did not consider this a religious issue which could violate First Amendment rights, but a contract issue. The Get was just one required step for which there had been an offer, acceptance and consideration making the contract biinding on the parties. The appointment for a Get was made within 48 hours and one issued in 10 days.
The Get Beis Din which you refer to is the type I use most often. The sofer is the Dayan, his driver is often on of the three, or they are the aforementioned Rebbis from the local Chabad Day School. Again, because the Civil Divorce has already been granted they don’t have to deal with settlement, custody, counseling to save the marriage. They just make sure there is a kosher divorce and that the parties are free to remarry and that any future offspring will mt be momzerim.
BTW, as I have posted before over the years, I will not handle a divorce for a Jewish client unless they agree in advance to a get. It does not matter whether they are frum or reform, that’s my standard. These are not considered forced gittim (I asked the shailah decades ago) because the person seeking to engage my services is free to hire any other licensed attorney in the jurisdiction.
That said less than 5% of my divorce cases involve Jewish clients and I prefer it that way.August 18, 2019 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #1776247thinkingclearlyParticipant
Dude. You are about to make a decision that will affect the lives of you and your family forever. Speak to someone real. Not a freaking chat group on the internet. I mean really.August 18, 2019 10:23 pm at 10:23 pm #1776250
TLIK: A Get requires neither a rabbi nor a Beis Din. All a Get requires is a Sofer and two eidim.August 19, 2019 12:05 am at 12:05 am #1776265Uncle BenParticipant
CTL; In the case you cite where you hauled the ex-husband back to court and the judge ordered him to give the get, why isn’t that a get meuseh al yedei akum? Just because the judge says it has nothing to do with religion?August 19, 2019 12:39 am at 12:39 am #1776255
I had a husband who refused to make the appointment for the Get as agreed in the Civil Divorce (I represented the wife) I hauled him back before the divorce judge on a contempt motion. The judge told him that if the terms of the divorce were not complied with the now ex-husband would be held in contempt, fined and jailed. The judge did not consider this a religious issue which could violate First Amendment rights, but a contract issue. The Get was just one required step for which there had been an offer, acceptance and consideration making the contract biinding on the parties. The appointment for a Get was made within 48 hours and one issued in 10 days.
CTL: I pray this wife who was your client didn’t remarry and certainly didn’t have more children. As the scenario you just described unquestionably, lchol hadeios, constitutes a Get Me’usa, an invalid Get under Halacha as clearly described in Shulchan Aruch. Leaving her remaining married to her first husband. As such and future offspring are illegitimate in the eyes of Jewish Law.August 19, 2019 7:10 am at 7:10 am #1776275lakewhutParticipant
Lawyers make up their own rulesAugust 19, 2019 7:13 am at 7:13 am #1776287TalmidchochomParticipant
I just don’t get itAugust 19, 2019 8:20 am at 8:20 am #1776295
You wrote: A Get requires neither a rabbi nor a Beis Din. All a Get requires is a Sofer and two eidim.
That is correct. Now, this woman receives her get. Who will verify that everything was done in accordance with halacha? She will probably want to remarry. Would you accept her for a daughter-in-law? Or would you want to know that someone with the halachic expertise verifies the get as kosher? That is why it is common practice to use a beis din (either a sitting BD, Zabl”a, or the get BD I described). The kashrus of the get affects the husband as well, as he has the Cherem DeRabbeinu Gershom issue over his head. Unless he got the heter meah rabbonim, the get needs to be known to be kosher.August 19, 2019 9:31 am at 9:31 am #1776301akupermaParticipant
If the husband and wife are all in agreement BEFORE they talk to rabbis or lawyers, and no one is pulling any shtick, everything goes smoothly and quickly. Though (to ever lasting joy of the matrimonial bar) few couples are that agreeabled about getting divorced. Things like the “get” law assume lack of mutual agreement.August 19, 2019 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #1776318TalmidchochomParticipant
Rabbonim must not be too happy.August 19, 2019 12:03 pm at 12:03 pm #1776347HealthParticipant
TLIK -“That is why it is common practice to use a beis din (either a sitting BD, Zabl”a, or the get BD I described”
Your SN is correct! You don’t know alot.
I gave my wife a Get after the civil divorce.
“A Get requires neither a rabbi nor a Beis Din. All a Get requires is a Sofer and two eidim.”
Joe is right. And that’s what I did.August 19, 2019 12:03 pm at 12:03 pm #1776339MilhouseParticipant
Uncle Ben and Joseph, how is this even close to me’useh? Get me’useh is only when the compulsion is directly to give the get. The judge didn’t order him to give a get, he ordered him to fulfill his contract. The judge doesn’t care what the contract was for; it could be to give a get, or to eat ice cream, ככל היוצא מפיו יעשה. How is that different from the classic case where nochrim are not allowed to say “give a get”, but they are allowed to say “obey the beis din”?August 19, 2019 1:21 pm at 1:21 pm #1776413
No attacks needed, nor do I take them seriously. One might be able to do the civil divorce first. It is not common practice, and is very much the exception to the rule in NY.
As for the sofer plus eidim, I stated that Joseph was correct. It is seldom done quite that way, because people who expect to remarry prefer to have something that has documentation that is accepted elsewhere. I have letters from well known batei din that certify that they will NOT recognize gittin performed by particular rabbanim. Same goes for geirus. If giyur was done in a manner that was certainly kosher, but the beis din involved is not known in another location, the rabbonim there may reject recognizing the geirus until it is done again by someone they recognize. I have first hand experience with that. Yes, the sofer with eidim can be kosher. But how will the rabbonim or beis din elsewhere know that?August 19, 2019 1:21 pm at 1:21 pm #1776412
Milhouse: Beis Din didn’t order him to give a Get, in the description of the case given. Additionally, even had they done so, they’d have to additionally rule that utilizing Goyim is permissible, otherwise it still results in a Get Me’usa. Furthermore, even if the husband is merely pressured to give a Get outside the authorization of Beis Din, and not forced to, it results in a Get Me’usa. All of this is delineated in Shulchan Aruch. The preceding is all true even if he signed a contract “I will give a Get” and doesn’t do so, followed by a secular court “merely enforcing the contract”.August 19, 2019 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #1776595lakewhutParticipant
How about not giving a Get and working on your marriage?August 19, 2019 10:33 pm at 10:33 pm #1776695Little FroggieParticipant
Oh sure. The Get Store, right next to the shoe store. As advertised: Give a quick Get while you shop for shoes…August 19, 2019 11:00 pm at 11:00 pm #1776703
You guys really don’t realize that the OP is a troll?
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