- This topic has 26 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 4 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
Celibacy is obviously not an ideal means for Jews to live their lives. Essenes and other such sectarian groups obviously practiced this, to their demise. Yevamot 63b records the solitary example of Ben Azzai, ho explained his celibacy with the words: “My soul is fond of the Torah; the world will be perpetuated by others.”
The first codified din in Even haEzer is that a man is chayav to marry and procreate, and his not doing so “is as if he shed blood, diminishing the Divine image and causing His Presence to depart from Israel.” It says that bet din can compel a man to marry if he’s still a bachelor after 20, and only if a person “cleaves to the study of the Torah like Ben Azzai” can his refusal to marry be condoned, provided he can control his sexual lust.
One limitation placed on the unmarried man in the Rema is that he cannot serve as shaliach tzibbur, and the Gemara bars an unmarried man from sitting as dayanim in dinei nefashot.
If we look at the reality nowadays, how do we deal with these limitations placed on the unmarried? Kohelet writes that “Which yet my soul seeketh, I find not, one man among a thousand I have found, but a woman among all those I have not found.” This is a painful, sad reality for many men. Compounding the problem is the fact that frum society will call a bachelor with a career and his own home a “boy” even if he’s in his thirties. Does halakha really view a man who has been unable to find a suitable wife in such a negative light as we’re portraying it? Such would seem cruel, but our ways are not G-d’s Ways. (I am writing this perhaps out of a sense of feeling depressed, as a shidduch prospect failed to materialize, due to the girl’s previously undisclosed mental illness).
You, and all unmarried Jews, should be zoche to find your zivug hagun b’karov
“Compounding the problem is the fact that frum society will call a bachelor with a career and his own home a “boy” even if he’s in his thirties.”
Well @RebDoniel this is because you can make no “real” contribution to yidishkite until you and your future wife start popping out the next generation. Because until you’ve dealt with the stress of living a “real” heimishe life, your opinions and accomplishments are the equivlent of a child getting an “A” on a history test…i.e. meaningless in the long run.
The infantilization of young people (especially women) in the frum community is absolutly tragic.
You should seek a community where you are appreciated as you are and not what you arent. Quit seeking the approval of people/a community that dont consider you a member of Klal Yisroel in good standing lechatchila.
What if someone is happy being a bachelor? Isn’t it their life and happiness?
rebdoniel- Compounding the problem is the fact that frum society will call a bachelor with a career and his own home a “boy” even if he’s in his thirties.
Everywhere, the 30 yr. old unmarried guy is called a ‘boy’ and it is not exclusive to our community, and I don’t understand what would be wrong with that. But we call an unmarried man of any age a ‘buchor’ in an extremely positive sense. Since although he is unmarried, he still retains his individuality and responsibility on a personal level, without having to adhere to anything besides torah and mitzvos, that’s why we call him ‘chosen’, just like a budding 13 yr. old.
Think of the bachelors we had in klal yisroel: Rabbi Yaakov Weinberg, the Sridei Esh, the alter mirrers, and most gedolim were either divorced or widowed for a significant part of their life and so on.
Sounds like crisisoftheweek has switched sides and is now the one yelling crisis in a crowded online theatre.
Everywhere, the 30 yr. old unmarried guy is called a ‘boy’ and it is not exclusive to our community, and I don’t understand what would be wrong with that.
I do not think that is true.
Nigritude, it is their life, but the Torah does not agree that a man can be equally fulfilled regardless of marital status, if that’s your implication.
Hashem himself said “Lo tov heyos haAdam livado; eeseh lo eizer kiNegdo”. And he created Chava for Adam, rather than leaving Adam a “bachelor”.
rebdoniel:
May Hashem guide you on the right path in pleasantness, in all areas, including this one.
Regarding a 30 yr old unmarried guy being referred to as a “boy”, I would apply “lav davka” to that appellation. Anyone at that age who is successful in parnassa, etc. is clearly not a boy. Similarly, a similar-aged female with advanced degrees and a parnassa may also be called a “girl”.
As you mentioned, there are certain times where halacha distinguishes between married and not-yet married.
But the usage of the terms “boy/girl” rather than “man/woman” or “male/female” is essentially for the gender distinction. But it is certainly not, CH”V, a societal condemnation for their great nisayon.
Think of the bachelors we had in klal yisroel: Rabbi Yaakov Weinberg, the Sridei Esh, the alter mirrers, and most gedolim were either divorced or widowed for a significant part of their life and so on.
The Sridei Eish was divorced. I know of no gedolim who never got married and precious few who were divorced.
Too bad if a man has lost out on the Mitzwah of marriage & child procreation:- But why compound this loss with the loss of a Tallis Godol.
Seeing a bachelor in their 60’s & 70’s still not wearing a Tallis is so sad, not to mention how humiliating it must be for them to parade their celibacy.
I know many who divorced, I’m not sure it will be a compliment to them, so I will not give a detailed list, but there are a crowd. And some of the biggest too.
I don’t see any great difference between someone once married and someone who was never married. Point is that they are not married now.
I one heard from an Adon Gadol that the Zohar states that not every single person was born with a zivug. I went back and asked him for the exact source and he told me that he does not remember the place. At any rate, I have heard such a zohar.
The difference between someone who has been married and then divorced or widowed and someone who has never been married is that the first group has some understanding of how a marriage works. My mother has been on dates with men in her age group who have never been married and she comes home and tells me that they have absolutely no clue about compromise and give and take. I am not saying that men who have never been married are deliberately inconsiderate, or that they cannot marry women who have been married. But there is a general trend that it’s difficult for them to relate to each other.
Yankel,
Not everyone is zocheh to find their zivug, but everyone has a zivug. Before coming down to this world husband and wife are one soul.
regarding your quote from koheles, when writing that pasuk he was bitter, and not unlikely a tad depressed. I don’t think you should follow his example (ditto for the part where he drinks, parties, and spends money in excess).
Look to the end of koheles for some real wisdom- “sof dovor, hakol nishmoh, es haelokim yiroh, ve’es mitzvosav sh’mor.” As long as you’re doing that, God will be with you on your search.
On a personal note, im also in shidduchim and while not quite as melancholy about it as you are, I’ve gotta say the experience is overall really emotionally draining and difficult.! Kol tuv to you.
No one can say which is more painful, except (maybe) someone who has been single for a long time, then married twice, widowed and divorced.
I personally would prefer to be widowed than never married. At least one should experience love and then have it taken away, rather than never have it at all. Besides, that way one can still have children.
Doniel,
1. I did not find such a Rema. Please cite it’s location.
2. Actually, one who does not have children, irregardles of his marital staus, is ineligible to sit on capital cases, as is one who is extremely old (Rambam Hilchot Sanhedrin 3:2).
That’s referring to Rosh Hashana/Yom Kippur. Unmarried men may serve as shaliach tzibbur during the rest of the year. In fact, if you’ve ever been to an Orthodox minyan at a college Hillel, the only married man there is the rabbi and generally the students lead the davening. Or for that matter, in camp, usually the unmarried counselors lead davening, and sometimes even the campers themselves.
As usual, credit goes to my husband.
Seeing a bachelor in their 60’s & 70’s still not wearing a Tallis is so sad, not to mention how humiliating it must be for them to parade their celibacy.
I think I once heard that this is the reason why men don’t wear a tallis until they are married – it is to make them aware that they are missing something and encourage them to get married.
Doniel, he is referring specifically about Selichot and the Yamim Noraim. He adds that any Jewish man is kosher so long as as he is acceptable to the congregation unlike what you wrote. BTW, there are also a few more lechatchila qualifications such as great in Tora and deeds and at least thirty.It would seem that a talmid chacham who is not married would be preferable to an am ha’aretz who is.
So unmarried Sefardim aren’t missing anything?
Joseph: You don’t know of gedolim who got divorced? R’ Malkiel Kotler wanted a divorce, but his wife wouldn’t take the get.
I believe R’ Shlomo Feivel Schustal got divorced (although he remarried.)
And don’t forget the founder of the Beis Yaakov movement, Sarah Schenirer, was divorced twice!
rebdoniel: you compare yourself to the Sridei Aish, because you think you can’t connect with anyone on an intellectual level? LOL!
It’s not an imposition on an unmarried man. The Minhag is to have our Shat”z (for Mussaf on Y”K but it spread from there to all Yomim Noraim) be as similar to the Kohen Gadol as possible. One of those requirements was to be married (that’s a Din D’oraisa). So the Minhag developed to have a Shat”z be married. I’m sorry if you don’t like that as a single, but the fact that singles will feel bad about it is not enough to be Mevatel a Minhag that old.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.