The Torah was created to teach you how to live

qwerty, as I just mentioned in another thread – look at Beitza 25b

The Torah was NOT written to teach us how to live. The Torah existed before the world, and even had the world not been created, the Torah would exist. It happens to be the blueprint for everything – the world, how we should act, etc, but that is NOT the purpose of the Torah.
As for critical thinking, you’re correct, we do need to think critically. But part of that is recognizing that the earlier generations had a much closer connection to the Torah and to Hashem than we do. If I decided to study physics, I wouldn’t just start arguing with Einstein – I’d recognize that he was the expert, and if I disagree, it’s probably a lack of understanding on my part, not his. So too with learning – if my thinking goes against a Tana or Amora, I’d recognize that it’s an issue on my end, not theirs. Chas v’shalom to say that they were wrong!
Where critical thinking comes into play is when there are modern situations that didn’t exist in the past. Critical thinking is needed to figure out how to take the Torah that was learned in the past, and apply it to the present situations. Most of us are not knowledgeable enough to do this – one needs to have a firm understanding of all the relevant sugyos in order to do this. Only a true talmud chacham can issue a psak in such a case.

Why are you constantly insulting someone like your better then them. Do you even think about the concepts that they bring to the table or you just spew insults to make yourself feel superior. Because it doesn’t seem to be working

DaMoshe > Where critical thinking comes into play is when there are modern situations that didn’t exist in the past. Critical thinking is needed to figure out how to take the Torah that was learned in the past, and apply it to the present situations.

Right, but it could also be that modern information will give you more insights on the problems that Amoraim were dealing with. Now, gemora is very good at conservative answers. That is, gemora is usually closer to math than to statistics – it has a way of making deductions that it is very sure of, rather than doing “the best guess” based on current information.

Still, we can come up with some issues and maybe teikus that we might know better. For example, we have medical research that does not contradict gemorah but is way more productive in conducting experiments comparing to how Amoraim collected empirical knowledge.

Ok qwerty I think your confused. We established that the person who was put to death was gathering wood to make a fire..imporant distinction..
Second, if the Torah isn’t a book of morality. Then what is it. What’s its nature. Why was it written..

To the group

In the post which began this thread, rescue/nevuah cited the Golden Rule, “Do unto others etc.” Only one problem; that’s the Christian version. For Jews it’s “That which you find detestable don’t do to others.” The reason they’re similar is because the Christians stole the idea from us. Am I making a big deal out of nothing? Definitely not. Al Pi Shnayim Adim Yokom Dovor. A second proof. When rescue appeared about three months ago, the infamous “Chabad Rabbanit” declared that Schneersohn was G-d’s physical son. She was correctly taken to task by several posters, but one person came to defend her neo- Christianity. That’s right, rescue AKA the artist now known as Nevuah. But we have another Posuk, Devarim 19:15 which says, “Al Pi Shnayim O Sheloshah Adim” So we see that sometimes we use three proofs. If we look at the various posters on YWN, we are Torah Jews and this comes across in our writing. We cite Gemaras, Midrashim and Posukim, but not rescue, rather he follows the New Testament of Secular Humanism. Yes, he’ll offer a verse like “Love Your Neighbor Like Yourself” but that’s one of the classic verses that Christian missionaries have seized on. I’ll even add a fourth proof at no extra cost. Not long after rescue started spouting his trash, I asked him to name his Rabbi(s) but he ignored my request. I assumed, at the time, that he was OTD and so he had no Rav, but the evidence now points in the direction that he is a Jew for J or cheeses if you will, or perhaps he’s even a full-fledged Christian. Whatever the case may be, no one should endorse, in any way, anything that he has, or will say. And, of course, checkmate.

“The Torah was created to teach you how to live”
Please explain how korbonos, nazir, sotah, slavery etc. jives with the above sentence.
(and dont call me an apikoras, you vile people out there)

Karbanos are and served as a spiritual equalizer. Certain sins’ metaphysical impact on the persons entire being, requires a sacrifice of atonement to “pay” for those sins. Because the sacrifice itself will eqaulize the callateral damage the sin had on the person. This is not a physical payment but a spiritual one. If someone harmed someone by mistake or even on purpous those actions cause suffering not just in the victim but in the perpetror. It’s like life itself requires payment. Karbanos equalizes those sins and becomes the payment so that the person can be freed from the callateral damage of their choices.

Slavery I can’t answer but from what I understand Jewish slaves were people that needed to pay debts. And it states clearly to treat your Jewish slaves properly, becuase a Jewish slave is your brethren and when you see someone you know in a degrading situation it’s easy to look down on them so the emphasis is, despite their ugly circumstances make sure you treat them properly.

There’s literally a reason for everything in the Torah and it was designed to create a wholesome environment within the self and also a wholesome framework to guide a person throughout his life. Tyranny on the other hand seeks to take wisdom and wholesomeness and questions and seeking and turn it into fear mongering and control. a person cannot be his true self in a tyrannical emvirmemt, which is a curious, hard worker that sometimes makes dumb mistakes. This hyperfocus on rules and perfection makes people lose touch with the very principles the book was supposed to and was desighned for.
Would you accept an abusive person into your life? That behaves in a controlling fashion? No you would not.
If you yourself would not allow others to be cruel or controlling to you the same is with our relationship with God. If God created us to despise and stay away from abuse why would He be abusive towards us and expect abusive things from us. I truly believe is that God wouldn’t because God is not abusive or controlling. And those that think he is…..are contradicting themselves by removing from their lives, friends or foe who’d treat them the same way.
Our relationship with life and how we interact and what we consider right and wrong and what we consider just or unjust, what we consider corrupt or not corrupt, in our day to day relationships, is the same and has to be the same with our relationship to the Devine. Because concepts don’t change, abuse doesn’t change just because the charachtor is bigger and more Devine. Relationships still have the same rules on the micro level to the macro level.
So the better question isn’t, we fallow God cuz he “says” so the better question is, it someone ever told me that would I agree with that way of thinking or would I consider that something I wouldnt invite into my life. If you can consider it wrong on the micro level it will also be wrong on the macro.
Our Creator is loving.He is kind. He cares about every one of us as His own. He is just. Not unjust. And it’s a shame that so many people create this false narrative and fear based thinking when it’s so untrue and comepletly contradicts what they would accept from anyone else in their lives

The “Torah” uses simplistic language? What? Where?

And where does it say “Do onto others as you would be done unto you”?? That’s from Hillel. Not the Torah (“Love your fellow like yourself” is similar; but different phrase).

Where does it say “I walk through the valley of the shadow of death but you are still with me”?? Thats from Tehillim. Not the Torah.

This guy literally just makes stuff up and claims it’s Torah…
And totally ignores the parts he doesn’t like…

Just ignore him…. enough…

Let him think his own ideology is “Torah”. It obviously makes him feel good. I used to argue with him until I realized he’s not interested in truth. He wants to reconcile Torah with humanism.

Let’s give credit where credit is due… He so badly wants to keep Torah synced with his version of morality… I appreciate the effort… Thanks!

Qwerty let’s, differentiate your religion from your fanatism. Your beliefs can be carpamentalized to be their own stand alone religion. Stop taking things so literally

To the group

Last week I issued a simple challenge to the atheist who calls himself Nevuah. He claimed that my religion is false. I responded that my religion is Judaism and its adherents keep all of G-d’s commandments, I then asked him which religion he follows. As expected, he didn’t answer but he did say that my religion is fanatacism stop taking things so literally. So, there you have it. He calls on the posters to pick and choose those parts of the Torah that are in line with his viewpoint.

To rescue

You are correct that Happy can’t prove that his version of the Torah, which is also the version that has been accepted for over three thousand years, is true. However, he and all those who agree with him, which includes every Jew who is practicing the true form of Judaism have a Chazakah. It comes from the first Mishna in Pirkei Avos which says that Hashem gave the Torah to Moshe who transmitted it to the elders and so on to this day. We believe that this is an unbroken chain of transmission. You, however, reject this and so you believe that all our prophets, Tannaim, Amoraim etc were in on this great big coverup that only you unearthed. Perhaps,(lol) But the principle in Judaism and in life is that if one side has a Chazakah, to overturn that Chazakah one must have a very strong counter suit. What’s your proof that we should reject what has been taught from time immemorial and trust in you? Well actually you do have a proof. The Gemara says that Nevuah was taken away during Bayis Sheini and given to psychotics, so you might have a case, because you certainly fit that bill, but it doesn’t say retarded psychotics, so again it’s checkmate you worthless moron.