The Wizard of Oz

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  • #602559

    avhaben
    Participant

    Is The Wizard of Oz a kosher movie for a frum home, for children, either halachicly or hashkaficly?

    #862032

    MiddlePath
    Participant

    Here are the answers you are likely to get:

    1) It’s a perfectly fine movie for children.

    2) There’s nothing really wrong with it, but ask your rav.

    3) I think there’s something wrong with it, but ask your rav.

    4) I don’t think it is a good movie to show children.

    5) Movies are assur.

    I may have missed a few answers, so others can feel free to add their own.

    #862033

    Totally 🙂

    ‘course I’m biased…

    #862034

    It’s an individual thing. For the parents and the children. Who are you, what kind of kehilla are you in, is it accepted to watch (any / such) movies? How old are the children, do they watch movies regularly?

    And I’m sure I could think of more questions….

    #862035

    Sam2
    Participant

    Avhaben: It’s fine for young children, completely Kosher, though it may be a little scary. There is also a Kol Isha issue if your kids aren’t that young.

    NOMTW: Really? Shouldn’t you be biased against it? The play Wicked completely distorted and destroyed Baum’s entire world outside of the Wizard of Oz movie. True Baum fans absolutely hate the play.

    #862036

    BTGuy
    Participant

    I dont think the kids would over analyze the movie, such as if the wizard being revealed as an ordinary person stating each character already possessed, in themselves, the traits they were seeking, as being an atheistic metaphor.

    And Dorothy does wear a skirt, but does show her elbows..

    So…that being said..

    They will probably be captivated by the movie and will thoroughly enjoy the Lion, Tin Man, and Scare Crow, as well as the songs.

    Now, the other question is: Colorized or Black and White version?

    #862037

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    lol Sam2 you are too funny.

    #862038

    Sam2:

    “NOMTW: Really? Shouldn’t you be biased against it? The play Wicked completely distorted and destroyed Baum’s entire world outside of the Wizard of Oz movie. True Baum fans absolutely hate the play.”

    True Wicked fans believe that the Wicked version is the correct version and that Baum’s Elphaba is SERIOUSLY misunderstood…

    So while I ‘disagree’ with The Wizard Of Oz, I do not think that there is anything inherently wrong with it from a hashkafic/halachic POV (But like I said- I may be biased since I am huge fan of the story regardless of which version is correct)

    #862039

    akuperma
    Participant

    Some would say it is actually about politics and economics during the turn of the century, though that was watered down in the movie.

    #862040

    akuperma:

    “Some would say it is actually about politics and economics during the turn of the century, though that was watered down in the movie.”

    Yeah, that’s stressed in Wicked with all the experiments on the animals…”For The Greater Good”..etc

    #862041

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    “Some would say it is actually about politics and economics during the turn of the century, though that was watered down in the movie.

    L Frank Baum (The author of the book) said that

    And Yip Harburg who wrote the songs was a communist and was black listed later.

    #862042

    Ctrl Alt Del
    Participant

    MP, you forgot 6) What’s the wizard of Oz?

    #862043

    Ctrl Alt Del
    Participant

    And by extension, What’s a wizard? Should I make a shehecheyanu on it? You know what? I don’t know what it is so I’ll just assur it to be on the safe side. ATTENTION ALL!! Wizards (whatever they may be0 are assur min hatorah. Anyone caught with a wizard at home will have their children removed from yeshiva and will have to daven in the “wizard” shul. Pashkevillim are being printed up as of this post.

    #862044

    Queen Bee
    Member

    avhaben, I suggest you watch the movie and see for yourself whether it’s appropriate for YOUR kids. We don’t know you, what type of home you have, what is “kosher” for your kids. I don’t think you should rely on other people to tell you what to allow your kids to see. I personally would let my kids watch the movie. But I am not you.

    #862045

    Sam2
    Participant

    NOMTW: Elphaba was not by Baum at all. It’s just an old version of Wicked. Baum wrote 14 children’s novels, all of which are amazing. Wicked and Elphaba are massive distortions of that world.

    #862046

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    Sam2: That very monochromatic world where everyone wears sparkly pink dresses and bad guys always do teshuva (or have their memories wiped). No offense, but I did not like them even when I was 8. (I did like The Land of Oz, though, but was heartily annoyed when they made Tip into a sparkly fairy princess.)

    #862047

    Sam2
    Participant

    OOM: Excuse me, but the Patchwork Girl was by definition not monochromatic. 🙂

    #862048

    brech
    Participant

    QB: I haven’t watched it, but some posters above mentioned it has kol isha and pritzus (elbows). So a father couldn’t watch it either to see if its ok.

    #862049

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    Sam2: They probably majicked her puke-pink to to make the furniture.

    #862050

    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    Many of the Gedolim today probably watched it when they were kids! I know a really good Rebbe in a really good Yeshiva (when I say really good,I mean a big Yeshiva in Flatbush) who would sometimes sing songs, like, We’re off to see the wizard etc. in class…

    #862051

    oomis
    Participant

    I loved it, think it is totally appropriate (though the flying monkeys and the witch can be a little scary for a very young child), and it teaches a great lesson about not looking for something else that’s out there, when you have a wonderful life if you would only appreciate what you’ve got.

    #862052

    haifagirl
    Participant

    Now, the other question is: Colorized or Black and White version?

    Somebody colorized it? For shame!

    #862053

    BTGuy
    Participant

    Hi haifagirl.

    Actually, I looked it up and it says the sequences in Kansas were shot in black and white, but the sequences in Oz were shot in technicolor, and that is how it remains today.

    Who said it was colorized??

    Oh, I did! :

    #862054

    Sam2:

    “NOMTW: Elphaba was not by Baum at all. It’s just an old version of Wicked. Baum wrote 14 children’s novels, all of which are amazing. Wicked and Elphaba are massive distortions of that world.”

    Elphaba AKA The Wicked Witch of The West most definitely is in Baum’s books…

    Wicked (The Broadway) went ahead and played up her background (which according to Baum fans is completely distorted) I like the Wicked version because it intellectualizes her “wickedness”. That is precisely why I choose my SN. In the song “No One Mourns The Wicked” (From Wicked) there is one line: “Are people born wicked or do they have wickedness thrust upon them?”.

    #862055

    nfgo3
    Member

    “The Wizard of Oz” is a very popular movie among the toeva folks. I do not know whether that makes it assur, but it is a curiosity that deserves attention.

    #862056

    BTGuy
    Participant

    lol @ nfgo3.

    Well, I hear it used to be popular to them because of the song.

    “Somewhere over the ‘rainbow’, way up high, there’s a land that I heard of, once in a lullaby.”

    Well, now they have Asbury Park, so they have their land. lol

    #862057

    Sam2
    Participant

    NOMTW: Sorry, I thought you were referring to a play called “Elphaba” which was a precursor to Wicked. And the name Elphaba never came from Baum. They named her Elphaba after Baum’s initials (Lyman Frank Baum-LFB), which is even more of an affront to him. I cannot confirm this, but I also heard that they waited for a few of his kids or grandkids or something like that to die before coming out with the play because they some of them were so disgusted with the distortion of the story.

    And yes, the Wizard of Oz is credited with being the first full-length color movie, even though the Kansas scenes are in black and white.

    #862058

    Dorothy is not dressed tznius. Otherwise nothing bad with it, nothing good either, a waste of time.

    #862059

    sushee
    Member

    What do you mean “otherwise”, shmiras einayim/tznius isn’t bad enough? And how about the kol isha?

    #862060

    oomis
    Participant

    “The Wizard of Oz” is a very popular movie among the toeva folks. I do not know whether that makes it assur, but it is a curiosity that deserves attention. “

    From what I have read and heard, that is because there are men who dress up as famous women and perform in night club acts that cater to this particular predilection, and they like to do their impressions of Judy Garland.

    #862061

    oomis
    Participant

    I don’t think Dorothy was dress untzniusdig at all. From the perspective of frum Jews, you are right, it would not be acceptable today (short sleeves), but I don’t really think that one can look at Dorothy and honestly think anything negative about her clothing. Her entire demeanor is tzniusdig. Modesty is about more than just an inch or two of material.

    And I think the fantasy of the story is great escape for children. Learning about the meaning of real friendship, and what values are important in life, and how to be makir tov to one’s family and friends, is a VERY valuable lesson. As a child, I eagerly looked forward to the annual telecast.

    #862062

    sushee
    Member

    Well, we are discussing Jews watching it. So, yes, her manner of tznius from a Jewish perspective (shmiras einayim requirements) is what matters here. And kol isha.

    #862063

    bpt
    Participant

    “the witch can be a little scary”

    A LITTLE scary? To this day, I can picture the WWW leaning into Dorothy’s face and saying “I’ll get you, my pretty!”

    Very scary!

    #862064

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    sushe: I’m not sure what you are trying to accomplish here. No one seems to agree with you except your fellow trolls.

    #862065

    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    Actually, I looked it up and it says the sequences in Kansas were shot in black and white, but the sequences in Oz were shot in technicolor, and that is how it remains today.

    Actually, it was sepia, not black and white (yeah, I know… picky, picky).

    One of the great moments in the film is right after the house lands in Oz. The film is still in sepia until she opens the door. Anything outside the door is in color while the rest of the house is still colored in sepia.

    If you’re curious as to how they did that in the late 1930s, the scene was shot in color. The set (including the dress that Dorothy was wearing) was sepia-colored.

    The Wolf

    #862066

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Seems like you’ve answered your own question, Nymphadora.

    #862068

    sushee
    Member

    pascha bchochma and BTGuy said there is a tznius (shmiras einayim) problem, and Sam2 said their is a Kol Isha problem.

    #862069

    EY Mom
    Participant

    I will not get into the halachic/hashkafic aspect – as others have noted, I don’t know you well enough for that. If, however, you generally do not allow your children to watch secular movies, then there’s no reason for the Wizard of Oz to be an exception.

    As far as your kids – there are definitely scary parts. The Wicked Witch and her soldiers (whatever they’re called, I’ve forgotten) can be very scary for small children. So can the flying monkeys. And there is some element of violence – the Wicked Witch of the East who’s crushed by Dorothy’s house at the beginning, the kidnapping of everyone to the castle of the Wicked Witch of the West, and of course Dorothy’s killing the Wicked Witch (albeit unintentionally) by accidentally spritzing her with water while saving the Scarecrow who caught on fire.

    There might be more, I don’t know – it’s for sure been over 25 years since I saw it!

    #862070

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    Hmph. That’s Tonks to you.

    #862071

    yitayningwut
    Participant

    Apologies, ma’am.

    #862072

    brech
    Participant

    Is there any heter for a guy to watch the scenes with the kol isha or Dorothy’s uncovered elbows and knees? Don’t tell me when you go to work you see such things too. There their is a heter for parnassa since it is unavoidable for parnassa. Here it is only voluntary entertainment. And their’s kol isha too.

    #862073

    oomis
    Participant

    It’s not LIVE kol isha, she was not Jewish, and if you hold that way, you probably do not have a TV anyway, so whats the problem for you?

    #862074

    Sam2
    Participant

    I have two possible Heterim, both of which are very Dachuk and neither of which is worth saying. But no, I can’t think of any legitimate Heter for an adult (or teenage boy) to watch it, and especially not one endorsed by any prominent Rov.

    #862075

    menucha12
    Member

    yup

    #862076

    BTGuy
    Participant

    The Wiz might be a good alternative.

    #862077

    apushatayid
    Participant

    If you have boys, they would probably prefer a video about the Wizard of Ahhhs (Ozzie Smith Highlights).

    #862078

    MiddlePath
    Participant

    I personally prefer the Blizzard of Ozz.

    #862079

    apushatayid
    Participant

    How do you understand him?

    #862080

    OneOfMany
    Participant

    Wicked all the way. 🙂

    #862081

    MiddlePath
    Participant

    apushatayid, I usually don’t. I kinda block him out, and just try to listen to Randy Rhoads’ amazing guitar abilities.

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