The world should take action on Israel’s treatment of charedim

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  • #2046268
    Romain
    Participant

    The un and international countries always acuse and critize israel
    For its Treatment towards Palestinians.but the un and international world should also change directions and punish the zionists
    For its abuse of charedim

    #2046315
    follick2
    Participant

    Asking non-Jewish authorities to intervene in a dispute between Jews is always a bad idea.

    #2046321
    ujm
    Participant

    Bravo! The OP, Romain, is 100% correct.

    The US should put sanctions on Israel for its human rights violations against Chareidim.

    #2046334
    ujm
    Participant

    follick2: the irreligious authorities don’t carry the benefit of being considered part of Klal Yisroel.

    #2046360
    inquisitive girl
    Participant

    The Israeli government and many irreligious people treat chareidim badly. It’s true. But have any of you wondered about the cause? The only hatred without a cause is anti-Semitism. But for a Jew to hate another Jew will not happen without reason.
    Don’t you think protests against the government and government officials might be a cause? Illegal protests, fighting against police, making fires… Aren’t there any peaceful ways to make protests??? Or what about refusing to get a draft exemption? What are we showing the chilonim? Do you think this will make them frum? Isn’t this a huge chillul Hashem???
    There are other reasons. The chilonim want a secular state, and we want it to be more religious. This is also a big reason for their hate.
    But when chareidim act inappropriately, the chilonim and government hate us more. So first, the chareidim in Israel should improve their behavior, and then we’ll discuss the hatred and bad treatment.

    #2046361

    ujmI understand that if you have a dispute with any Jew, you need to invite him to a BD first before going to UN. But Romain can simply move to any of the neighboring aniti-zionist countries

    #2046362
    anonymous Jew
    Participant

    Ujm, what happened to not masering a Jew?

    #2046369
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    “But for a Jew to hate another Jew will not happen without reason.“

    Ever heard of sinas CHINAM

    #2046381
    inquisitive girl
    Participant

    coffee addict, youre right.
    If there is sinas chinam in Israel, maybe we might be making it worse.

    #2046387
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Sinas Chinam comes from jealousy were the hatred has no excuse. Therefore it will kept bottled up in the heart and will not be resolved by discussing the reason for it. The Torah says not to hate your brother in your heart but tell him about it. See the Yad Yosef on the Ein Yaakov Yoma 9.

    #2046438
    Duvidf
    Participant

    Which “treatment” are you referring to the free tuition, health insurance, monthy kollel checks, or maybe the free plots of land for shuls and yeshivos?

    #2046485
    akuperma
    Participant

    The world didn’t object to the holocaust (unless they had an ulterior motive to do so), so why should they object now?

    #2046501
    Romain
    Participant

    1 using rubber bullets in peaceful charedi protets
    2 allowing secular events and not frum
    3 people who incite against charedim do not go to jail
    4 beating charedim

    #2046518
    inquisitive girl
    Participant

    akuperman dont compare to the holocaust!!!!! Theyre arent killing or jailing or torturing anybody!

    #2046521
    inquisitive girl
    Participant

    romain
    1. maybe they use it because they are afraid the protests will become violent (as it almost always becomes).
    2. i dont know about events.
    3. if somebody does something illegal, the go to jail. if not, they dont. Give me an example.
    4. beating charedim? when? secular people beat charedi people? Or you mean police?

    #2046555
    akuperma
    Participant

    duvidf: The government benefits limited to those hareidim who support zionism. Many would argue that a hareidi who supports zionism, even if only to get the money, is not really hareidi. The complaints against the government are from the anti-zionist hareidim.

    #2046552
    akuperma
    Participant

    “inquisitive girl”- Kal ve’homer, if they didn’t object to hareidim getting killed and tortured, why would they object to hareidim being beaten or harassed. Also, the reason the Nazis got in trouble was not they they were killing and torturing Yidden in Germany, but they were doing that to a lot of other people and invading all their neighbors.

    #2046582
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    My take is that Secular Israel is petrified of Observant Israel. In sixty five years, the yeshiva has gone from the most recent relic to be found in The Land, to the lifeblood of the fastest growing and most influential communities on the future of the State. It is obvious that we are approaching the complete nullification of the Ideal of Secular Zionism. There are even anti religious Zionist thinkers, that see movement sanctioned mitzvah observance as the only path forward for a secular state. They know they lost the intellectual battle, and are infuriated by it. The violent rhetoric coming out of certain religious camps does not put them at ease……

    #2046654
    HaKatan
    Participant

    re: Asking goyim to intervene is a bad idea:
    Not in the case of evil Zionists, it’s not a bad idea.

    (akuperma: That’s Zionist mythology. The Zionists, as the self-appointed leaders of world Jewry, insisted Palestine or the gas chambers and the Zionists lobbied governments against allowing Jews into their countries.)

    Other than the Holocaust (in which, anyways, the Zionists had much more involvement than most people could dream), the worst possible scenario is the Zionists.

    Since the Zionists invaded a century ago, the frum community begged the British and UN to leave them separate from the Zionists.

    #2046683

    HaKatan, you are free to organize your anti-Zionist community anywhere nearby – Syria, Jordan. They should be quite supportive. You missed a moment to live under ISIS.

    #2046698
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Hi, Hakatan!

    I was waiting for you to come around. I would go ahead and point out all the lies in your revisionist history, but then you would pile on and stop responding. You could go on with your claims that all Frum Jews were anti-Zionist, and all Zionists are not part of Torah Jewry. But you and all other who adhere to this gospel, disappear when the debate gets serious. It is obvious to me, that the relationship between Zionism and Judaism is to complex to be able to uphold a dogma of absolute rejection. Even secular Zionism. If you think you can uphold your case, then please start a new thread with it.

    I’m a bit annoyed. In that all your achieving, is that nobody can discuss or even criticize Israel without you coming around and insisting on a complete rejection of the State. Something like a ‘catch and kill’. You can serve your cause better, by allowing for other conversations. As well as standing by your own.

    #2046716
    huju
    Participant

    To ujm: I thought every Jew is part of Klal Yisrael.

    #2046752
    ujm
    Participant

    huju: Mechalel Shabbos, treif fressers, are not included in being considered our brothers in Klal Yisroel, and the associated benefits and considerations that entails.

    #2046777
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ujm,

    It depends for what. There is no blanket statement here. Besides, even if they are excepted on the matter in question, that does not make your bad idea into a good one.

    #2046810
    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    Romain: Perhaps you meant that the U.N. should take action against a segment of the Chareidi tzibur that for years has disrupted and terrorized the majority of the Israeli population with their hafganot that block traffic for hours, physical and verbal attacks on women who don’t meet their standards of tzinius, vandalize public property for display of advertisements they dislike etc. I agree that action is necessary but the Israeli security forces have finally realized enough is enough and are now more forcefully responding to these misguided “Chareidim” and I don’t think it is necessary to involve the U.N.

    #2046813
    ujm
    Participant

    N0m: Yes, the statement is a blanket one.

    #2046835
    inquisitive girl
    Participant

    Thats a good one Gadolhadorah!

    #2046839

    Gadol, I am not sure how widespread and approved this behavior is. I heard from some people who were interested in joining a protest while in yeshiva in Israel and were advised by R’Y not to go.

    #2046886
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    “but the un and international world should also change directions and punish the zionists
    For its abuse of charedim”
    I think everyone including the UN, the Charedim and the Zionist should sit around a camp fire eat kokosh cake and drink cold milk and sign kumbaya

    #2047045

    Re: inviting UN: we have a lot of history when inviting great powers to solve our internal debates lead to great disasters: hashmonaim inviting Romans, litvakim/hasidim in Russia-occupied Vilno. Usually, the great power gains and both sides lose.

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