There Is No Eruv In Flatbush / Marine Park!

Wasn’t their two purported eiruvs, one highly contested from 50 years ago by the MO community and a second highly contested one built about 16 years ago that is similar to the one in BP?

A gentile told his Jewish neighbor that he rested completely on Shabbat. The Jew commented that a gentile is not allowed to keep Shabbat. “Don’t worry. I carry my siddur to shul”. “But there is an eruv”. “You hold by that eruv?”

The question I always want to ask people when I see them carrying is “Do you know where the eruv ends” I have never seen a map or a sign saying eruv ends here

First of all, you have no right calling people mechalel shabbos when you have no idea what you are talking about.

Not only is the eruv kosher but it is inspected every week. If you would like more information I would be happy to provide the contact information for my Rabbi who deals with the eruv every week.

Lets stop this “holier than thou” attitude – you aren’t. If you don’t hold by the eruv – then don’t, but stop condemning others who have valid sources on which to rely.

I believe the Vaad of Flatbush was responsible in the past. I never held by the eruv but am curious why this came up now.

I am told that the Flatbush Eruv as well as the Sephardic Eruv overlap the Marine Park Eruv and extend down past Gerritsen and North past Ave R. As I said earlier, if you PM me I would be glad to provide my Rabbi’s number and he has far more detailed information about this topic.

Google it. The web site is erub dot org. The map is there. The rabbinical endorsements are there. Everything is there.

mik5: I just checked out the website you mentioned and unfortunately it is not “all there”. While the Map of the eruv of the Sephardic community is posted, it has nothing on the eruv that is being mentioned about Marine Park.

Is it an issur kareis or דרבנן? Would uou use it on Yom Kippur?

I don’t use it on יום כיפור, and Kal Vachomer not on שבת.

iacisrmma

Rav Moshe does agree that there are shitos and rabbanim etc that you cannot be mocheh.

However, according to many, the facts are that there are three Mechtizos surrounding Brooklyn, as most seawalls are built up with gates etc.

Also, there are psokim and poskim that were relied upon prior to Rav Moshe, like the Eruv in Warsaw which had more then 600K inhabitants.

“how did this get ressurrected?”

By someone posting to this thread.

Gaon: I am still not sure why this thread from almost 2 years ago was bumped but I wrote what was explained to me by Rabbi Hillel David. He also told me that unlike Warsaw, R’ Moshe was told that the population in Brooklyn was over 3 million people (this was the estimate in 1979) and he held that it was possible that 1/5 th of the population was in the streets at all times and therefore was a reshuffling harabim doraiso.

And would a changing population figure over the years for Brooklyn effectively change what the psak holds whether an eiruv is permitted?

iac: The US Census issues very accurate population figures for Brooklyn and every individual zip code within Brooklyn. Were the estimates used for the psak in line with the US Census figures?

iac: The US Census includes illegal aliens in their population figures for any area. Does your response indicate that the psak added a figure in its population assumption above the US Census figure? Because the Census figure already included all residents, legal or not. Thus adding an assumption above the Census would result in an inaccurate over-estimate.

Joseph, Reb moshe says that there three million people in boro park, thats obviously something someone …… told him, and not a census.

iac/thinker: The US Census updates its figures periodically more than its full enumeration decennial count. Every couple years or so they provide an updated count to account for the changes since the last full census. These counts also include both legal residents and illegal aliens.

Even without considering the Census’ ACS mid-decade updates, you can look at both the 1970 and 1980 decennial census’ to see if the estimates numbers align with those from the office census (which includes all residents, including illegals.)

Furthermore, regarding changes to Brooklyn’s population from 1980 through today in 2018, wouldn’t those population changes potentially affect the psak since the psak is determined based on population?

Thinker,
I think R Moshe is referring to that bp is within the י”ב מיל consisting of 2 mil. Not bp within itself.

joseph: as with other pesak halachos of R’ Moshe, things might change based on the current circumstances. Maybe R’ Dovid or R’ Reuvain would be able to answer this question.

Apushatayid…i am surprised at you. Dont you know how this “system” works by now? Have you not been around the block a few times already?

In case you dont know, this is how it works: everyone will give you “their” version of what Rav Dovid shlita said. You will NEVER know what Rav Dovid shlita in fact said.

Queens has a very similar population and makeup to Brooklyn and has major streets going through it (Queens Blvd and the Long Island Expressway), yet Queens has Eruv’s that are not challenged. Its not just the KGH Eruv, there are Eruvs in a good chunk of Queens Like Forest Hills, Hillcrest , Briarwood and in fact there are Eruvs and connections from Forest Hills to the Nassau Border (About 10 Miles)

Where’s the Nassau border?

Also, can anyone tell me what’s up with seemingly frum people crossing the Van Wick while carrying on Shabbos? Are they all just cases of being “spoiled by the eruv” and they don’t know better?

ZD,

But what does RM say what is the heter based upon?
I don’t think RM had an issue with LIE, rather it is the area of 2 Mil. inhabitants with 12 MIL.

“The boundry between Queens and Brooklyn is really just an artificial boundary,”

Agreed! I still have no clue who came up with that idea..