March 17, 2015 2:54 pm at 2:54 pm #615189
No good Jewish stores around me to buy a marked up sheet of metal so want to go to Home Depot to get one. Just curious how thick should the metal sheet be? To be used to cover a gas range.March 17, 2015 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #1065690Sam2Participant
Pashtus is just aluminum foil is enough.March 17, 2015 5:08 pm at 5:08 pm #1065691
Pashtus is also that for grufa uktuma it would work, but am I incorrect in my understanding that the metzius is that thin foil will start coming apart at a certain point?March 17, 2015 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #1065692popa_bar_abbaParticipant
It shoudl be at least 6 inches thick.March 17, 2015 5:41 pm at 5:41 pm #1065693the plumberMember
So then use 2 sheets of aluminum foilMarch 17, 2015 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #1065694apushatayidParticipant
forget come apart. unless you place your pot directly on the burner, it will fall right through. I dont think there is an aluminum foil on the market strong enough to support an empty pot, let alone one full of food.March 17, 2015 6:11 pm at 6:11 pm #1065695farrockgrandmaParticipant
Try a foil cookie sheet.March 17, 2015 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #1065696🐵 ⌨ GamanitParticipant
Honestly- about 1mm.March 17, 2015 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #1065697
Thank you everyone for your input, and especially for Gamanit on being motzei laz on the rest of the posters by starting his post with “honestly,” implying everyone that doesn’t say “honestly” before they post is lying. 😉March 17, 2015 9:35 pm at 9:35 pm #1065698YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
I use an insulated aluminum cookie sheet. Much cheaper than anything you will find custom made.March 17, 2015 11:05 pm at 11:05 pm #1065699popa_bar_abbaParticipant
I use a dead goat. Then we also eat the goat.March 17, 2015 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #1065700squeakParticipant
70 denureMarch 18, 2015 12:20 am at 12:20 am #1065701HaLeiViParticipant
But the goat is supposed to be in the oven, not on the stovetop.March 18, 2015 12:25 am at 12:25 am #1065702hakohen53Participant
Mod 29: I like your idea, but what do you mean that the cookie sheet is insulated? Don’t think I ever heard of that before.March 18, 2015 12:50 am at 12:50 am #1065703YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
It is a flat cookie sheet that is made of two layers with air between them. It distributes the heat more evenly and doesn’t turn black by the end of shabbos.March 18, 2015 2:00 am at 2:00 am #1065704
I use a blech to cover all four burners, keeping only two opposite end ones on very low. UNDER the blech and directly over the burners, I keep flame tamers, which are perforated thick metal discs. They are meant to typically be used under any pot, to turn it into a double boiler. Thus my blech has its own blech under it. By the time a pot actually goes onto the blech, it is like a kli shlishi.I also cover the blech with tinfoil, so make that a kli revii.March 18, 2015 2:11 am at 2:11 am #1065705
Oomis, that’s a very dangerous misuse of terminology. It’s still a kli rishon.March 18, 2015 8:52 am at 8:52 am #1065706theprof1Participant
I love it when complete halacha am hoaretzim try to pasken the halacha.March 18, 2015 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #1065707👑RebYidd23Participant
Nobody did, prof1.March 19, 2015 12:28 am at 12:28 am #1065708
Really,DY? I would very much appreciate an explanation of that. That is not what we were taught in Seminary. Perhaps I misunderstood the terminology. I thought the first thing on the fire is the kli rishon.March 19, 2015 2:14 am at 2:14 am #1065709
Oomis, the pot is a kli rishon if it’s been on the fire (and still hot) no matter how many layers may be between the pot and the flame.
When the contents of the pot are poured into another vessel, that vessel is considered a kli sheini.
When the contents of the kli sheini are then poured into another container, that container is a kli shlishi.
Example: you have water in a kettle, on a flame or blech (or two, or three…). It’s a kli rishon. If you pour water from the kettle into a mug, that mug is a kli sheini. If you pour water from the mug into a cup, the cup is a kli shlishi.March 20, 2015 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #1065710cherrybimParticipant
Anyone here know the purpose of a blech? Is it really necessary? What happens if you don’t have one? Oomis, what is the reason for covering the knobs? What does kli sh’lishi have to do with a blech?March 20, 2015 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #1065711
A blech is a ????, required for ???? and some forms of ???-?. It is filling the role of ???? ????? mentioned in the ???? (specifically, ????).
It is sometimes required, sometimes a ??????, and almost always a good idea.
Covering the knobs is a further ???? not to raise the fire.
??? ????? is not affected by a blech.March 20, 2015 8:09 pm at 8:09 pm #1065712golferParticipant
Just to clarify oomis, the kli rishon is the actual pot holding the food over the fire, such as the cholent pot containing the cholent. A blech, a flat piece of metal between the pot and the flame, is not a kli. The kli by definition contains food.March 20, 2015 9:06 pm at 9:06 pm #1065713
Thank you, DY for the detailed answer!
“Anyone here know the purpose of a blech? Is it really necessary? What happens if you don’t have one? Oomis, what is the reason for covering the knobs? What does kli sh’lishi have to do with a blech?”
CB, I always thought the blech was to be a lessening of the heat between the burner and the pot (and to make the pot into a klish sheini, which DY pointed out to me, I have misunderstood). The covering of the knobs, which not every blech does, is specifically to make people aware that it is there and prevent people from accidentally turning the fire up or down. Not a bad idea. I put covers on my light switches for the same reason.March 22, 2015 12:05 pm at 12:05 pm #1065714writersoulParticipant
R Moshe holds that part of grufa uktuma is covering knobs…March 22, 2015 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #1065715Sam2Participant
DY: Really? You put a dash in Shehiya? That’s just… wow.March 22, 2015 10:00 pm at 10:00 pm #1065716feivelParticipant
Someone who seeks Kedusha and who’s Yiddishkeit has a Neshama sometimes will act in ways not strictly mandated by Halacha, or perhaps even by common custom. It’s a hergish. Probably DY doesn’t wear blue jeans either.
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