Things so pashut that even TSB"R know them, but people nowadays don't

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  • #613278
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Well the first one would have to be the Noda B’yehuda quoted in the other thread. ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ????

    #1026781
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Berachos 5a:

    ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?’ ????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?’ ?????

    Rashi:

    ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ??????. ?????? ?????

    #1026782
    Sam2
    Participant

    The vast majority of Pesukim in Chumash.

    #1026783
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Thanks to whoever fixed the title.

    You’re welcome. -100

    #1026784
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Gittin 29a:

    ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ????

    #1026785
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Chullin 81b:

    ??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ????

    Rashi:

    ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ??????. ????? ?? ?????? ???

    #1026786
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    I just realized that in all these cases it is always R’ Yochanan who says ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? in response to something that Reish Lakish says. I wonder if there is any significance to that. Or if anyone knows of a place where a different amorah uses this line.

    #1026787
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Interesting observation. Reish Lakish was a baal teshuvah…

    I don’t know what kind of education he had before he became a bandit…

    #1026788
    Sam2
    Participant

    DY: There’s a Tosfos that says he was a Chacham before that, then went off the Derech and became a bandit, then was Chozer Bitshuvah. He proves it from a weird Lashon that R”L used in one place.

    #1026789
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    You’re right, .?”? ??, but it’s from ?”? saying ?? ???? ??.

    Interesting how after he was ???? ???, he was ???? ?? ????.

    #1026790
    Sam2
    Participant

    DY: Are we sure he was an Am Ha’aretz in the classical sense of “ignoramus”? Am Ha’aretz can also mean someone who is anti-Talmidei Chachamim. I would assume that’s what it means in this context, unless you have a Ra’aya from the story (which I’ll B”N look at again).

    #1026791
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Tosafos say he forgot.

    #1026792
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    Although I don’t know of any other place where an Amora says this line in critique of another Amora, there are a couple of places where H’ says to King David ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ????.

    #1026793
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    As I was perusing through my Penei Yehoshua, I noticed a line that I had previously underlined:

    ????? ??? ????? ?? ??”? ?”? ??? ??? ?? ???”? ?”? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ??????

    #1026794
    yitzyk
    Participant

    If you go back far enough, there was a time when children all knew the entire Tanach. And if you go back to the days of Shaul Hamelech, what was the expression – from Dan to Be’er Sheva they all were proficient in even the complex sugyos of …?

    #1026795
    besalel
    Participant

    its probably just an expression meant to drive your point home. not literal. many writers and speakers and their “fall back expressions.” this just may be r’ yoichinen’s.

    #1026796
    Yikesau
    Member

    I think you mean Chizkiyahu Hamelech. During his time children from Dan till Ber Sheva knew Hilchos Tumah and Taharah (??????? ?? ?”? ???? ?) . Secondly The Medrash Parshas Emor states that in the times of Dovid Hamelech young children knew fourty nine ways in the Haloches of Tumah and Taharah. (???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?)

    #1026797
    Patur Aval Assur
    Participant

    “many writers and speakers and their “fall back expressions.” this just may be r’ yoichinen’s.”

    As Tosafos in Kesubos 2b says:

    ??? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ?’ ???? ??? ?? ?’ ????? ????

    ??? ????

    Although Tosafos is not talking about what the Amora would say inasmuch as he is saying that the Gemara uses different words to refer to different Amoraim’s statements.

    Interestingly, R’ Yochanan also is often the protagonist in the stories that involve a student getting killed: The story with the student scoffing about the ????? ????? ???????? in the Messianic Era, the story with Rav Kahana, the story with Reish Lakish etc. Was that also a personality thing?

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