Home › Forums › Bais Medrash › Things so pashut that even TSB"R know them, but people nowadays don't
- This topic has 17 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 4 months ago by Patur Aval Assur.
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July 25, 2014 3:48 am at 3:48 am #613278Patur Aval AssurParticipant
Well the first one would have to be the Noda B’yehuda quoted in the other thread. ??? ???? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ????
July 25, 2014 4:10 am at 4:10 am #1026781Patur Aval AssurParticipantBerachos 5a:
??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?’ ????? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?’ ?????
Rashi:
????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ??????. ?????? ?????
July 25, 2014 12:16 pm at 12:16 pm #1026782Sam2ParticipantThe vast majority of Pesukim in Chumash.
July 25, 2014 12:46 pm at 12:46 pm #1026783Patur Aval AssurParticipantThanks to whoever fixed the title.
You’re welcome. -100
July 25, 2014 1:01 pm at 1:01 pm #1026784Patur Aval AssurParticipantGittin 29a:
??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ????
July 25, 2014 1:07 pm at 1:07 pm #1026785Patur Aval AssurParticipantChullin 81b:
??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ????
Rashi:
????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ??????. ????? ?? ?????? ???
July 25, 2014 1:09 pm at 1:09 pm #1026786Patur Aval AssurParticipantI just realized that in all these cases it is always R’ Yochanan who says ????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? in response to something that Reish Lakish says. I wonder if there is any significance to that. Or if anyone knows of a place where a different amorah uses this line.
July 25, 2014 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #1026787☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantInteresting observation. Reish Lakish was a baal teshuvah…
I don’t know what kind of education he had before he became a bandit…
July 25, 2014 1:26 pm at 1:26 pm #1026788Sam2ParticipantDY: There’s a Tosfos that says he was a Chacham before that, then went off the Derech and became a bandit, then was Chozer Bitshuvah. He proves it from a weird Lashon that R”L used in one place.
July 25, 2014 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #1026789☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantYou’re right, .?”? ??, but it’s from ?”? saying ?? ???? ??.
Interesting how after he was ???? ???, he was ???? ?? ????.
July 25, 2014 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #1026790Sam2ParticipantDY: Are we sure he was an Am Ha’aretz in the classical sense of “ignoramus”? Am Ha’aretz can also mean someone who is anti-Talmidei Chachamim. I would assume that’s what it means in this context, unless you have a Ra’aya from the story (which I’ll B”N look at again).
July 25, 2014 3:08 pm at 3:08 pm #1026791☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantTosafos say he forgot.
July 27, 2014 3:32 am at 3:32 am #1026792Patur Aval AssurParticipantAlthough I don’t know of any other place where an Amora says this line in critique of another Amora, there are a couple of places where H’ says to King David ????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ????.
August 6, 2014 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #1026793Patur Aval AssurParticipantAs I was perusing through my Penei Yehoshua, I noticed a line that I had previously underlined:
????? ??? ????? ?? ??”? ?”? ??? ??? ?? ???”? ?”? ???? ????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ??????
August 7, 2014 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #1026794yitzykParticipantIf you go back far enough, there was a time when children all knew the entire Tanach. And if you go back to the days of Shaul Hamelech, what was the expression – from Dan to Be’er Sheva they all were proficient in even the complex sugyos of …?
August 7, 2014 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #1026795besalelParticipantits probably just an expression meant to drive your point home. not literal. many writers and speakers and their “fall back expressions.” this just may be r’ yoichinen’s.
August 7, 2014 10:14 pm at 10:14 pm #1026796YikesauParticipantI think you mean Chizkiyahu Hamelech. During his time children from Dan till Ber Sheva knew Hilchos Tumah and Taharah (??????? ?? ?”? ???? ?) . Secondly The Medrash Parshas Emor states that in the times of Dovid Hamelech young children knew fourty nine ways in the Haloches of Tumah and Taharah. (???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ?)
August 8, 2014 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #1026797Patur Aval AssurParticipant“many writers and speakers and their “fall back expressions.” this just may be r’ yoichinen’s.”
As Tosafos in Kesubos 2b says:
??? ????? ??? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ?’ ???? ??? ?? ?’ ????? ????
??? ????
Although Tosafos is not talking about what the Amora would say inasmuch as he is saying that the Gemara uses different words to refer to different Amoraim’s statements.
Interestingly, R’ Yochanan also is often the protagonist in the stories that involve a student getting killed: The story with the student scoffing about the ????? ????? ???????? in the Messianic Era, the story with Rav Kahana, the story with Reish Lakish etc. Was that also a personality thing?
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