January 5, 2017 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #618967
Every once in a while people (usually older) mention that this generation of kids/teens are much worse than theirs. I’d like to ask people on here if that’s really true. Of course I’ve heard of yeridas hadoros but is this generation really so different? Is it proportionally bad to how last generation was worse than the one before it (confusing sentence haha).
Thank you!January 5, 2017 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #1208201JosephParticipant
Yes, yeridos hadoros is very true unfortunately.January 5, 2017 4:48 pm at 4:48 pm #1208202gavra_at_workParticipant
If the prior generation were people, than we are like donkeys, and not even the donkey of R’ Channia ben Dosa or R’ Pinchas Ben Yair.
Shabbos 112January 5, 2017 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #1208203
but did older people say the same thing to the generation before this?January 5, 2017 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #1208204MenoParticipant
“Yes, yeridos hadoros is very true unfortunately.”
I don’t think that was the question. The question (made clear in the “confusing” last sentence) was whether the yeridah in this dor was worse than that of previous doros. (It’s a calculus question)January 5, 2017 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #1208205jakobParticipant
Definitely much worse especially with all the technology yetzer haras today.January 5, 2017 5:14 pm at 5:14 pm #1208206
It’s a calculus question
-nice! good point.January 5, 2017 5:27 pm at 5:27 pm #1208207JosephParticipant
Each yerida is built on top of the last yerida.January 5, 2017 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #1208208akupermaParticipant
Every generation complains that their kids are worse. It has nothing to do with race, ethnicity, gender, religion or political affiliation. It does seem to be related to age. Every teenager knows this is without justification.
Fifty years ago I clearly knew that the parents were wrong to criticize the younger generation, but now I realize my parents were right, and that of course the next generation is even worse. It started with Adam and Havah (oy, did they have problems with their kids!), and as it has gone on now for over three generations it is a minhag.January 5, 2017 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #1208209zahavasdadParticipant
Definitely much worse especially with all the technology yetzer haras today.
There were other issues in previous generations. Do you know how many jews converted to christianity because of persecutions .
Did you know there were at least 3-5 churches in the Warsaw Ghetto
While some jews convert to christinaity today, its not what it once was, people arent converting to escape persecutionsJanuary 5, 2017 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #1208210blubluhParticipant
How do those expressing a pessimistic view of the generations understand Koheles (8:10): ??? ??????? ??? ????? ???????????? ???????????? ????? ??????? ???????? ???? ??? ????????? ?????????? ??? ???
(“Do not say, “How was it that the former days were better than these?” For not out of wisdom have you asked concerning this.”)January 5, 2017 7:24 pm at 7:24 pm #1208211akupermaParticipant
zahavasdad: The introduction of radio, printing, and movies was probably more corrupting than the internet. And there is no reason to convert to escape persecution since the Christians are themselves persecuted, and now it is only required to give up doing mitsvos (at least in public) to avoid discrimination.
blubluh: and we all now how much of a success Shlomo’s kid was (sort of wrecked the family business)January 5, 2017 8:47 pm at 8:47 pm #1208212golferParticipant
Bluhbluh, if I understand your question correctly, you seem to think the passuk you quoted (which is actually Koheles, 7:10) indicates that we are wrong to think that the “olden days” were better, thus contradicting the Yeridas Hadoros theme of this thread.
I think you misunderstood the passuk.
There are a few ways to translate it, and none contradict the concept of yeridas hadoros. According to Rashi, “Don’t wonder or be surprised at the good reward that the Tzaddikim of earlier generations got, such as dor hamidbar and the doros of Yehoshua and David Hamelech, because everything comes according to the zchus of each generation.” (Please look at the Rashi yourself as my translation is not accurate.)
As for the OP’s question, which I understood as: Was the yeridas hadoros greater in our generation than in previous generations?
I think the answer might be: Yes.
The generation that lived through the Holocaust went through tremendous nisyonos. Those who were in the USA at that time also went through great nisyonos, as shmiras Shabbos was not a simple thing here in the early part of the 20th century. The members of that generation who managed to remain frum, to keep Shabbos and to send their children to Yeshivos were truly remarkable people. Many were actively involved in building Yeshivos and Bais Yaakovs in a spiritual wasteland that did not seem to be fertile ground for such an undertaking.
The post_Holocaust generations (I think we’re just getting started on the third so can we say there are two that have reached the maturity needed to be part of this discussion?) have different nisyonos: They must deal with nisayon of “osher” or wealth as opposed to the suffering of those who raised them (even a poor person today lives with luxuries that were unknown a couple of generations ago), and the great nisyonos that come from living in an immoral society coupled with advances in technology that makes the immorality almost unavoidable.
It would seem to me that our generation is not dealing with its nisyonos as heroically and successfully as those who preceded us, and it looks like we’ve fallen an extra few steps back in addition to the natural step back each generation takes.
I’m open to hear from anyone who disagrees!January 5, 2017 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #1208213
^ I wouldn’t criticize Shlomo. I’m surprised that didn’t get edited tbh.January 5, 2017 10:31 pm at 10:31 pm #1208214blubluhParticipant
golfer: Thank you for correcting my error about the chapter number of the quote.
Yes, you understood my question.
A famous metaphor notes that the view of the giant (i.e., earlier scholars) is superior to that of the dwarf (future generations), but the view of the dwarf standing on the shoulders of the giant is greater still.January 6, 2017 1:41 am at 1:41 am #1208215☕ DaasYochid ☕ParticipantJanuary 6, 2017 2:18 am at 2:18 am #1208216
This is actually the best generation that has ever been:
1. We are much closer to Moshiach than ANY OTHER generation ever was.
2. We have WAY MORE accumulated zchusim than ANY OTHER generation ever had.
3. We have WAY MORE accumulated yesurim than ANY OTHER generation ever had (and “yesurim mechaprim” “suffering provides atonement”.)
4. MOST importantly of all – I am part of it, and so are you! So smile, and have a great day! 🙂January 6, 2017 1:38 pm at 1:38 pm #1208217MenoParticipant
“This is actually the best generation that has ever been”
How do you know any of those things (besides #4)?January 6, 2017 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #1208218👑RebYidd23Participant
1 is simple math.January 6, 2017 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #1208219Avi KParticipant
Rav Kook says that there is yeridat hadorot by talmidei chachamim but aliyat hadorot by ammei aratzot. In fact, we see a difference in attitude towards ammei aratzot already in the time of the Amoraim. Apparently education for the masses, started by Yehoshua ben Gamla, did the trick but at the expense of a certain lowering of the level of the elite, perhaps due to diversion of resources.January 7, 2017 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #1208220
“This is actually the best generation that has ever been”
How do you know any of those things (besides #4)?”
“1 is simple math.”
So are 2 and 3.
I think that I once heard from Rav Leff, Shlita: Someone asked the Chofetz Chaim how we could be deserving of having Mashiach come in our generation since other generations were better, and he said that we have the accumulated zchusim of all the generations.January 8, 2017 2:49 am at 2:49 am #1208221LightbriteParticipant
But then there is the teaching that all the souls need to be born before Moshiach comes.
In that case, even if our generation deserves it, Moshiach won’t come until it’s time and all the souls have already been born.
Though LU, this doesn’t contradict what you said because we could indeed merit the Moshiach’s arrival even if he isn’t here yet.January 10, 2017 3:40 pm at 3:40 pm #1208222
There are sources both ways, actually
In many , it is far worse and lower
In some, it is betterJanuary 10, 2017 3:43 pm at 3:43 pm #1208223
A massive problem of todays generation is :
there are so many [externally] very good boys and girls
How could any but the creme de la creme stand out?January 10, 2017 3:44 pm at 3:44 pm #1208224
this topic is discussed in Pachad YitzchokJanuary 10, 2017 5:19 pm at 5:19 pm #1208225smerelParticipant
I question if it really true that each generation feels the next generation is worse. Back in the 80s when the post holocaust leadership was dying I used to see article after article saying “Look how bad things were when he came to America and look how good they are now in relation to those times”January 10, 2017 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #1208226
“Back in the 80s”it was even more common! than today the refrain ‘Decline of the Doros’January 10, 2017 11:00 pm at 11:00 pm #1208227golferParticipant
Pachad Yitzchok by Rav Yitzchak Hutner?
Or Pachad Yitzchak by Rav Yitzchak Lampronti?
Care to tell us a little about what you’re referring to?January 11, 2017 12:16 am at 12:16 am #1208228
What topic is discussed in Pachad Yitzchak and in which volume and maamar (I was assuming you meant Rav Hutner, Zatsal’s Seifer?)January 11, 2017 12:17 am at 12:17 am #1208229
“Or Pachad Yitzchak by Rav Yitzchak Lampronti?”
Is that the encyclopedia?January 11, 2017 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #1208230
Your first supposition is correct
Discussed under the topic of ChanukaJanuary 11, 2017 6:00 pm at 6:00 pm #1208231
What is discussed in Pachad Yitzchak on Chanuka?
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