September 3, 2023 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #2222498
Arso- I’m curious- if you’ve never taught how to get in touch with your Neshama, what did your Rebbe teach you at all? A Rov can pasken Halacha- that’s not what a Rebbe is for (at least by us)September 3, 2023 5:55 pm at 5:55 pm #2222502
I have a Tanya question for all who are learned in Chassidus etc (Enunah1?)
If someone speaks lashon hara UNINTENTIONALLY or, say, is lacking in iyun tefilla UNINTENTIONALLY,
they do it without thinking, but as soon as they realize it’s an aveira etc they stop/ concentrate right away- is that nichlal in beinoni or below Benoni. See the third page of perek yud Beis (in the Hebrew print) look up the three vchulus and offer your expert answers. Looking forward to seeing.
On another note, not thinking Torah in places you’re not supposed to is quite challenging. Even many songs have maamarei chazal. Any tricks?September 3, 2023 8:19 pm at 8:19 pm #2222515
The Baal HaTanya answers this question himself. He says that a person should not be discouraged if מחשבות זרות plague a person during Tefillah. Rather, as soon as he realizes, he should refocus, even if it happens a hundred times. This is also the מדרגה of a beinoni because it’s a form of מלחמה with your yetzer hara. As long as you’re משיח דעת and you’re not חושב in these מחשבות on purpose knowingly, you’d still be at the madreiga of a beinoni.September 3, 2023 8:20 pm at 8:20 pm #2222516
For loshon hora, so if you do this unintentionally, it’s an עבירה בשוגג. It would, מסתמא, require teshuva like any other aveira b’shogeg, and once the teshuva is done, a person returns to being a beinoni.
The difference between מחשבות זרות and לשון הרע is that the first is only in a person’s מכשבה, which is not fully under the control of a beinoni, while לשון הרע is much closer to a מעשה than a מחשבה. (Although, it would be an interesting side topic to explore whether לשון הרע is different between דבור is not quite the same as a מעשה גמור for all things).September 3, 2023 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #2222519
Cs, much like chasidus, there are many different paths in the baalei mussar.
The goals are the same; to reach tikun hamidos and be as close to Hashem as possible. So much so that several big chassidishe rebbes said that after rav yisroel salanter, the litvishe had taken a broad move towards penimius, to the point where they do not need chasidus at all. The gerrer rebbe(i believe it was the sfas emes) said similar things about rav hirsch.
Mussar seforim and mesoros range from stressing negative things, which is what you describe, to stressing positive middos and gadlus ha’adam, and a lot in between.
Novardoker yeshivos (which produced gedolim such as the steipler) traditionally taught talmidim to do things to break their middos and focus on their shortcomings, while slabodka (which is where rav aharon kotler, rav yaakov kaminetzky and many other American Torah builders learned) taught talmidim to focus on positivity and the greatness of a yid, az es past nisht, etc…
While that may have been the mesorah of novardok, every gadol I’ve learned about who came out of novardok embraced a different path for today’s generation (and that of the 1950s, for that matter), seeing that people are too depressed and not able to go the way of those baalei mussar of yore.
The Arizal said the same thing about fasting and self affliction; in “our” time, these things largely do more harm than good, and we get those benefits from Torah, tefilas, simcha, etc…
Baalei mussar teach a vast array of methods, ranging from what therapists call cognitive behavioral therapy, (centuries before the term was invented), constant self awareness, introspection , what breslov calls hisbodedus, meditation on maamarei chazal, and using the power of torah lishma to purify one’s self(rav yisroel salanter emphasized this a lot in his famous igeres, where he says that one cannot fix one’s middos without learning about their relevant mitzvos b’iyun)
Mussar is an entire field of study and a lifestyle of gedolei olam; it’s chutzpah to stuff it into one sentence.September 3, 2023 8:54 pm at 8:54 pm #2222521
Regarding the nefesh habahamis(a term used in sifrei mussar as well), seforim talk about it in, again, different ways for different people. Some stress taking care of one’s nefesh habahamis, comparing it to a horse and its rider, others talk about breaking it, but this is not what’s emphasized in the post-war world.September 4, 2023 8:12 am at 8:12 am #2222621
CS, you asked how I was taught to get in touch with my neshama. And if I wasn’t talught how by my Rebbe, what did he teach me?
The problem with your question, as with a lot of other things that you and other Lubavichers write, is that aside from being taught a certain derech – ostensibly the derech of Lubavich – you are also taught that the purpose behind those teachings is universal and accepted by all.
So to answer your question, I was most definitely NOT taught to get in touch with my neshama, and I don’t believe that there is a need for that. Furthermore, a lot of “getting in touch” with one’s neshama is not a Jewish concept. Look at how the world is a mess because of people who “are in touch with themselves”. How does a person know that he is in touch with his neshama and that it is not merely his nefesh habehamis telling him that he is. As long as a person has base taavos and the like, he can’t judge where he is at.
So what does my Rebbe, and his forebears teach me? Not to try to get in touch with my neshama at all! To perform mitzvas and to learn Torah with yegiah and to be besimchah that I can do even the smallest mitzvah and learn even the smallest amount of Torah. Let the RBSO deal with my neshama; I have to deal with my machshavah, dibbur and maaseh in this world.
I could give you a number of very good sources on the matter… but then you’d probably figure out where exactly I belong. And if you want to know why I’m scared of that, the answer is that I don’t want to denigrate my chassidus by publicly claiming that I am a sort of spokesman of theirs.
One important question that I have: can you please provide a source – Lubavicher sources are fine here, although it has to be a primary source and not something a teacher in sem taught you – where it says that a person has to be in touch with his neshama? I would even like a source that says that a person has to know what state of righteousness he is currently at. Who cares where I am at the moment, it’s where I’m headed that matters… isn’t it?September 4, 2023 9:44 am at 9:44 am #2222663
Even I [surprise] can give you a source . the current rebbi of habad-
He writes in a sicha that the baal hatanya was greater than R Yochanan Ben Zakai because RYBZ was not in touch with his neshama , he was too busy with his avodat hashem so he had never time to check his neshama it should not be in the kelipa .
So from there you can see the importance of checking your neshama ….September 4, 2023 10:25 am at 10:25 am #2222692
Avodas Hashem IS being in touch with your neshoma, because you’re feeding it what it needs, i.e. Torah and mitzvos, which the tanya calls “food” for the neshoma (regarding learning)
I’ve seen it quoted in the name of the baal shem tov that one shouldn’t dwell on their level, because if you’ll think you’re a tzadik, it’s gaavah, and if you think you’re a rasha, it’ll lead to depression, so just constantly try to do your best.September 4, 2023 11:30 am at 11:30 am #2222731
YankelBerel, can you please quote the actual lashon of the sicha, so that I can either agree that it says one should be in touch with one’s neshama, or argue that it doesn’t? ThanksSeptember 4, 2023 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #2222739
Even literally – RYBZ risked his neshomo and met Vespasian, Alter Rebbe was niftar while fleeing from Napoleon.September 4, 2023 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #2222750
“the current rebbi of habad-” There is no current Rebbe of Chabad. He died over 20 years ago.September 4, 2023 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #2222757
Avirah: “Avodas Hashem IS being in touch with your neshoma, because you’re feeding it what it needs, i.e. Torah and mitzvos, which the tanya calls “food” for the neshoma (regarding learning)”
At first I thought with the above you were disagreeing with what I wrote, and it confused me because you write in the next paragraph that the BST said one shouldn’t dwell on his level, which seemed to agree with me. But after rereading a few times I think that you are agreeing with me even in the first paragraph.
That is, you are saying that there is no reason to put in effort to be in touch with your neshama because you automatically are through avodas Hashem.
Did I get that right?September 4, 2023 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #2222761Menachem ShmeiParticipant
He writes in a sicha that the baal hatanya was greater than R Yochanan Ben Zakai because RYBZ was not in touch with his neshama , he was too busy with his avodat hashem so he had never time to check his neshama it should not be in the kelipa .
This “quote” from the “Rebbe” may seem shocking to some of the readers (it was quoted often in the anti-Chabad rhetoric of the 80s), so allow me to clarify the source:
Rav Yochanan Ben Zakai cried on his deathbed that he doesn’t know which path they will take him. (Brochos 28b)
The Baal Hatanya explained that he was on an extremely high level of intellect which concealed his emotions, which led to his question.
The Rebbe Rashab said (Toras Sholom – Yud Tes Kislev 5673) that he heard from the TZEMACH TZEDEK (no, not from the seventh rebbe) that the Baal Hatanya was on a higher level than RYBZ who didn’t know which path he would be taken, while the Baal Hatanya did (see the full story there).
On the other hand, the REBBE explains (Likkutei Sichos vol. 16 pg. 273) that every Yid must learn from the avoda of RYBZ! The main focus of ones life shouldn’t be on himself and which level one is holding, instead it should be on the job that he was given to accomplish in the world. Only on his deathbed did RYBZ have a chance to begin contemplating his spiritual status.
The Rebbe once spoke about this in a maamar (Shvat 5712) and he sobbed very much how every person is given a certain amount of days from Hashem, and we must learn from RYBZ to use out every single moment for avodas Hashem without wasting any time even for worrying about oneself.
Just to set the record straight so no one should be confused about what the Rebbe said or where he got it from.September 4, 2023 6:35 pm at 6:35 pm #2222793
Interesting convo here- spent my time on chai Elul today- so will follow up a different thing. Just one thought- Elul is Chodesh hacheshbon- just like a businessman takes stock of inventory in order to have a healthy business (Hayom Yom) How can you take stock if you are clueless of where you are holding? It doesn’t take very long to figure it out if your at all
self aware. how can you take on new hachlotos if you haven’t sizes up where you’re holding? And of course it matters because the main dira btachtonim to accomplish is within oneself! Anyhow I’ll see your responses iyH when I get to the rest…September 4, 2023 7:27 pm at 7:27 pm #2222823
Cs, no one’s saying to put your head in the sand about issues that need tikun; what me and the others are saying is that it’s not important to know if you’re a tzadik or beinoni or whatever else.
Arso – yes, you understood me correctlySeptember 4, 2023 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #2222836
The עיקר of Lubavitch Chassidus (and I do not consider myself a Chabadnik) can be summed up in a word: התבוננות. This means deep thinking about how Hashem is ממלא כל עלמין and סובב כל עלמין, taking these concepts and applying them to your daily life. These ideas are explained in Tanya starting in Perek 35 until the end of ליקוטי אמרים. That’s where it gets pretty complicated, and you have to go slowly.
The purpose of understanding the difference between a צדיק and a בינוני is not so that you’ll know, as your question suggests. Rather, it is brought down in Tanya for the purpose of describing two completely different types of עבודת השם. The Baal HaTanya’s system explains the difference between the two in the first 14 or so perakim. Between then and perek 34 or so, he describes in great detail the עבודה of the Beinoni, explaining that this is מידת כל אדם. This עבודה includes סור הרע ועשה טוב to keep from doing aveiros, it includes being מחשיב the נשמה האלקית which is present in every Yid, and it includes being מתבונן in the nature of Hashem, his greatness, his holiness, etc in order to bring one closer to Hashem.
In short, I completely agree with you that it is not important in this world to understand the difference between a צדיק and a בינוני for its own sake. But if you learn Tanya, you understand that this is simply a jumping point within a whole system of עבודת השם. It is this עבודה that is the purpose of the Tanya, not primarily to explain the difference between a Tzadik and a Beinoni.September 4, 2023 11:02 pm at 11:02 pm #2222856
I thought simple explanation for RYBZ is that he is not sure whether he was right in not asking Vespasian to save whole Yerushalaim. Continue the analogy, Alter Rebbe was absolutely confident in his opposition of Napoleon and support of the Russian czar.
Unlikely alternative history that Alter Rebbe was scared of: French take over Poland and Russia, Jews learn of progressive ideas, and many assimilate. Better slavery in Russia than that. At the end, Pilish/Russian Jews experiencedboth slavery and assimilation, so I am not sure why Alter Rebbe was so sure (and most of other misnagdim and chassidim disagreed)September 4, 2023 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #2222862September 4, 2023 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #2222863September 4, 2023 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #2222864September 5, 2023 8:02 am at 8:02 am #2222905Menachem ShmeiParticipant
will try bln to check
(from the bottom of the page)September 5, 2023 8:05 am at 8:05 am #2222926
Great stuff on this forum, I’ll answer a bit at a time if that’s ok.
Firstly, (Emuna1 and Avira) The Alter Rebbe makes clear that even aveiros in thought cause someone to be a rasha. He says that in 12 and also in 11(the rasha perek).
But chazal said gimmel aveiros ain adam nitzol meihen bchol Yom. The Alter Rebbe specifies iyun Tefilla and says it’s not an issue to take someone out of beinoni unless he doesn’t refocus once he realizes he was distracted.
My point was that in the gimmel aveiros is included slanderous speech- hence my question about intention..September 5, 2023 8:05 am at 8:05 am #2222928
Avira- I gather from your post that there isn’t one central message in the litvish communities (and btw I read that learning about gadlus haadam was chakira, not mussar, ? But ok) I asked because I’m curious to hear more
there’s no chutzpa meant by my question to ask you to summarize the ideals/ message of mussar in one post; I wouldn’t ask you something I can’t do myself for Chassidus Chabad:)September 5, 2023 9:20 am at 9:20 am #2222929
Avira- taking care of the nefesh habehamis is a chiddush of the Baal Shem Tov (azov taazov imo- chamor =chomer haguf)
The way it was when the Besht came along was definitely breaking the guf. So I hear from you that’s mainstream now.
What I said about not taking it seriously- I meant its desires etc (at first glance.) but we take the refinement of the NFHB seriously, in fact that’s one of the reasons why we’re here anyway (The Neshama doesn’t need refinement.)September 5, 2023 9:21 am at 9:21 am #2222936
Arso- yea we’re not into being fixated on labels. But it’s important to know where we are in Avodas Hashem berech so we can evaluate our goals etc.
Here’s one source from the FR:
כשם שצריכים לדעת את החסרונות כך צריך כל אחד לדעת את המעלות שלו
Also The Rebbe would use the expression alot ידע איניש בנפשי׳ה
The Rebbe Maharash would say: the only one you’re fooling (if you want to fool yourself-ED) is yourself, and what’s the accomplishment of fooling a fool?
If you feel stuck in your avoda and need help finding ways to grow- within Chabad, we have a mashpia (ase lcha Rav) and at least one good honest friend (ukne lcha chover.)
Don’t forget your primary friend in this sense is your spouse- so see how s/he relates to you/ enjoys your company, if you want a guide for you middos.September 5, 2023 9:22 am at 9:22 am #2222937
Finally- yes there are people so busy running around day and night doing things for Hashem that they have no time to think. Ashrei chelkom. If you’re in a stage of life where that’s not the case- Hashem wanted you to fill your mind and heart with Him as well- so it’ll look differentSeptember 5, 2023 9:22 am at 9:22 am #2222938
Obviously you know the entire Chabad disagrees with you regarding The Rebbe being current…
And no, Ikkar of Chabad Chassidus doesn’t boil down to hisbonenus- if that were the case, we’d have mandatory hisbonenus times daily, and probably live a kollel life…September 5, 2023 9:23 am at 9:23 am #2222939
AAQ- the Industrial Revolution after the Russo- German war (we were against the kaisars as well) stated 100 years later. BH we had that time to prepare. Forced assimilation came with Stalin, and Chabad excelled there as it’s known… Because the tree had time to grow fruit (which was what Rebbetzin Devorah Leah gave her life for)September 5, 2023 10:01 am at 10:01 am #2223004
CS: you are, of course, free to disagree with me regarding the Rebbe. But that doesn’t mean that i’m wrong.
Regarding התבוננות, I base my opinion on my studies of the Baal HaTanya, including Tanya, and his countless Maamarim. Modern-day Lubavitchers have changed greatly both in feel and in practice from the original vision of the Baal HaTanya. I consider myself a Talmid of the Baal HaTanya, not a modern-day Lubavitcher. Whether the changes that have been made to Lubavitch over time are a good thing or a bad thing is not something that I have any interest in debating; it is what it is. But the main point of the original Lubavitch as envisioned by the Baal HaTanya, is clearly התבוננות.
As a side point, the way the Baal HaTanya appears to have envisioned it, you DO IN FACT have mandatory התבוננות every day. It’s called Tefillah. The Baal HaTanya, as you know, wanted every person to daven Shacharis a minimum of 1.5 hours in the morning. When done properly, you can have a proper עלית הנשמה through כוונה בתפילה which is exactly what the Baal HaTanya means by התבוננות.September 5, 2023 12:33 pm at 12:33 pm #2223026
CS, you seem to claim to have answered my request for pirmary sources by citing a number of quotes from a number of your rebbes. But I don’t see how any of them say that a person is meant to try to see exactly where he is holding on the rasha-beinoni-tzaddik scale.
Knowing one’s maalos and chisronos is not the same as knowing where one is on the scale. It is just an indication of what requires more work and what requires less.
You also wrote: “Don’t forget your primary friend in this sense is your spouse- so see how s/he relates to you/ enjoys your company, if you want a guide for you middos.”
Sorry, but I can’t accept that. If one gets on with one’s spouse – I certainly hope that’s the case! – the spouse has been moulded and moulded you in a way that you think alike and agree on many matters, especially if you have been married for some time,. Someone who thinks like you, and has adapted to your views and middos, is the last person to help you improve.
Was this claim of yours something the Lubavicher rebbe actually said, or something you came to yourself or heard in sem?September 5, 2023 5:26 pm at 5:26 pm #2223179
Cs, i hate to say it, but no jewish group “excelled” in the Soviet Union. Chabad, breslov and novarhdok held out and pushed back against the persecution, but they didn’t “excel,” they were silenced and most were taken to Siberia, etc…to the point where millions of russian jewish neshomos were lost to klal yisroel.September 6, 2023 12:49 am at 12:49 am #2223243
CS, what happened (and continue happening) in and around Russia is following historically from that confrontation between Napoleon and Russian Czar. From purely historical view, one might say that the role of some small Jewish group in White Russia did not matter. From spiritual POV, this could look different. As far as I know, other chassidim and Chaim Volozhiner supported Napoleon and maybe Polish hopes for independence, while Alter Rebbe supported the Czar. There are a lot of things to say for his position – it was likely that Napoleon will fail (and possible Chaim Volozhiner understood that also), so keeping good relations was important. Furthermore, Lubavich/Lyadi was located further into Russian empire than others. Still, Alter Rebbe was a minority who thought that keeping modernity away is more important than keeping slavery away.September 6, 2023 12:49 am at 12:49 am #2223244
Avira > they were silenced and most were taken to Siberia,
Chofetz Chaimn escaped (sending his S-I-L on shabbos to pick up visas in Vilno) but later said that it was wrong to leave, as Russian Jews were left without leaders.September 6, 2023 7:32 am at 7:32 am #2223304
@ Always ask questions
RAV Chaim voloziner – not chaim voloziner
Psak Sh’A YD .September 6, 2023 7:50 am at 7:50 am #2223289
1) there’s no evidence to say you’re right and on the contrary- lubavitch today is centered around the Rebbe (pundits after gimmel Tammuz predicted that lubavitch would jump off roofs/ fall apart within 5 years/ appoint a different Rebbe)
2) interesting about davening- yes you have a point there. But the Mitteler Rebbe said that Chassidus boils down to achdus Hashem. And if I could add- this isn’t about escaping the world etc but is accomplished by dirah btachtonim (which The Alter Rebbe says in Tanya is the whole point of Creation etc not only this world but all worlds etc.)
So to sum up: Chassidus Chabad is all about Achdus Hashem as expressed through Dira BtachtonimSeptember 6, 2023 7:50 am at 7:50 am #2223290
Emunah1: as a side point, all The Rebbeim came in a successive line and were guided by previous Rebbe/im after their passing. It’s all one message and one Torah (and each Rebbe references all the way back in their Torah).
If you cut it in half, you cannot grasp it fully.
Obviously, not meant to discourage you from learning anything at all😉September 6, 2023 7:51 am at 7:51 am #2223291
Arso, I had previously stated that I agree with you that it’s not important to know which label you have- but in order to reach the expectation desired of you in Avodas Hashem, you gotta have some working knowledge of where you are avoda wise (without sticking a label to yourself). I hope that’s clear.
Regarding marriage- regarding having a bad marriage- one has work to do. Regarding your second idea of marriage- I don’t see that anywhere (in healthy marriages- I’m not talking about where one nods along to everything the spouse says because they’ve given up on working things out together, but behind their back they manipulate things differently etc). Actually, the source for this one is Rashi on Ezer Knegdo. If he merits- she’sa helpmate. If he doesn’t merit- she’s against him to fight. I think that’sa great depiction of the marriage relationship and I’m happy to give my comments if you’d like them.September 6, 2023 7:52 am at 7:52 am #2223292
Avira- excelled- I meant spiritually. For a chossid/ Jew to go and willingly open a cheder / Mikvah even though he knew he was probably gonna end up dead by a gun/ beating / Siberia etc. Is excellence in devotion to Hashem and YiddishkeitSeptember 6, 2023 7:52 am at 7:52 am #2223293
AAQ- it seems my post wasn’t clear- The Alter Rebbe held that the Neshama is more precious than the guf- so if Yidden would get it easier physically with Napoleon but all frei out because they were unprepared spiritually for the divisions between Jew and goy to come down- that would not be worth it.
100 years later was a different story bH because the fruit of Chassidus had time to sprout. (Maybe mussar as well- I’m not sure the litvish history with the Industrial Revolution, but it’s working today, although for the sake of argument, it seems that the litvish path today is not purely mussar- that’s what I’ve gathered here. In any case not so relevant to the point at hand)September 6, 2023 9:39 am at 9:39 am #2223339
CS, you wrote a few days ago: “With mussar you identify with your nefesh habehamis, and as such you must constantly humiliate yourself for your selfish motivations”
This statement that I have heard many times from Lubavichers is most definitely not true, certainly not in regards to the mussar seforim I am acquainted with. They don’t tell you how bad you are. They tell you what is important and how to work to get there.September 6, 2023 9:43 am at 9:43 am #2223340
CS, I’d still like to know whether you have a real source that the best person for קנה לך חבר is one’s spouse. And in case you’re wondering, yes, I do have Shalom bayis BH.September 6, 2023 9:59 am at 9:59 am #2223360
I’ve been thinking about this “spouse being best option for קנה לך חבר” opinion and I’ve decided that I don’t agree with it. Ever. Not that your spouse should not be your friend, but that it doesn’t work in the context of the Mishna.
First, to prove technically that that is not what the Mishnah means, chaver does not mean friend, despite the Yiddish and therefor Hebrew usage of the word. It means something closer to the English word peer. A spouse cannot be a peer because of the difference in gender.
But more importantly, there are vast differences between the spiritual issues that males and females face, and asking someone of the other gender to fully understand one’s issues, to empathize and then to give help is not really possible. Being a chaver, in the sense of the Mishnah, means someone who can understand you fully, and a spouse, not matter how close the relationship, cannot.September 6, 2023 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #2223371
Regarding your first point, modern-day Lubavitchers DID go off the rails. And it didn’t take five years, either. Most Lubavitchers still believe that he is Moshiach, which is bordering on apikorsus, as I’ve discussed at length in other threads. The ones that don’t believe this are afraid to speak up and correct this edited.
Regarding your second point, yes, Achdus Hashem is what it’s all about. The Arizal was the one who translated the kaballah of R. Shimon bar Yochai into an elucidated system, but he purposely clothed it in משלים. the Baal Shem Tov was מגלה that the whole purpose of Kaballah was to bring out the Achdus of Hashem in the world. All of our avodah, יחוד קב”ה ושכינתיה is based on this Achdus Hashem.
This was brought out by none other than one of the Baal Shem Tov’s big talmidim, R. Aharon Halevi Strusele, which the Mittler Rebbe ostracized. I heard from a Lubavitcher who was close to the Rebbe that The Rebbe wanted to reprint this sefer in addition to all of the other Chassidus he brought into publication, but was afraid of what the old-time Chabadniks would say. In any case, I strongly recommend that if you want to understand the entire system of Chabad the way that the Baal HaTanya himself envisioned it, that you read שערי היחוד ואמונה and שערי עבודה by R. Aharon Halevi. You will see that all of the Tefillah, especially Shacharis, is intended to be a form of התבוננות into יחוד השם. This was the vision of the Baal HaTanya, and it is THE fundamental יסוד of the original Lubavitch chassidus. Virtually every maamar that the Baal HaTanya gave discusses hisbonenus in some form.
In terms of my own learning, I own the maamarim of the Baal HaTanya, and the MIttler Rebbe, and the Tzemach Tzedek ( except the ones that are out of print). The latter two both knew the Baal HaTanya personally and their primary focus in all of those volumes of maamarim is to elucidate and explain the maamarim of the baal hatanya.
I am sure that the other, later Rebbes have also written excellent chassidus, up to and including the late Lubavitcher Rebbe, may his memory be a zechus for Klal Yisroel, but they are absolutely not required to understand the Baal HaTanya’s Torah.September 6, 2023 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #2223501
Emunas1, so glad you’ve learned so much Chassidus. Honestly, at my stage (and I’m not in a calm shul environment either,) davening is more a battle to stay focused, than a wonderful uninterrupted hisbonenus, for me, at this stage. I can’t say I’ve learned all the maamarim of the Alter Rebbe and the Tzemach Tzedek either- although I’m really getting into Shir HaShirim and shoresh mitzvas hatefilla. I haven’t yet touched the Mitteler Rebbes Chassidus yet (it’s very lengthy.) but again I usually only manage to do some in depth learning on shabbos. I wouldn’t mind learning R Aharons etc, but all the Rebbeims Torah comes first… as that’s essential for my Avodas HashemSeptember 6, 2023 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #2223511September 6, 2023 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #2223525
Arso I’m sorry I missed your post. More next timeSeptember 6, 2023 8:38 pm at 8:38 pm #2223540
cs > . For a chossid/ Jew to go and willingly open a cheder / Mikvah
This is laudable of course and Chabad had great people there, but this is in part a “true Scotsman” fallacy – there were also people who joined the commies, etc, but those we call not “true chassidim”.
When Fridrike Rebbe was arrrested in the 20s, the arresting commissar wanted to carry rebbe’s suitcase as his father did for his father, but was refused.
Another story I heard from a Polish Jew whose house was searched by Soviet KGB during WW2, suddenly one of them started quietly signing Kol Nidrei nigun. When they talked, he warned them what not to do, and explained that he was a young yeshiva bucher, joined commies, soon lost his faith in it, but there was no way outSeptember 7, 2023 12:13 am at 12:13 am #2223543
CS, I understand Alter Rebbe’s argument for neshoma v. guf and it is very attractive, and it was based on recent history of assimilation in Western Europe. Still, it is very unattractive in a long run – agreeing and supporting a despotic regime (it appears that Chabad Chassidim provided direct intelligence support to Czar’s army, not just a general endorsement). I am not aware of any Western European Rabbonim taking their community and leading them away from spiritual mitzraim of Western Europe into safety of Russian empire. Notice that even in later years, when many European rabbonim were against moving to Goldene Medina or EY, there was no widespread movement saving Jews from evil America into safe Russia. (not counting yeshiva students going temporarily to learn in Mir or Slabodka, like R Avigdor Miller, and then returning back unless stopped by a world war).September 7, 2023 12:14 am at 12:14 am #2223544mdd1Participant
Ba’al ha’Tanya was greater than Rebbi Yochanan ben Zakai?!?!? Another thing which shows what is wrong with Chabad.
Always…, Chofets Chaim ended up beyond the Russian/Soviet borders after the Soviet-Polish war of 1920.
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