Time to cautiously reopen schools, Shuls, & most Businesses.

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    The facts are that anyone under the age of 45 has a very low likelihood of being in a life-threatening situation from Covid19. And many of those in this age group have already caught it & recovered. With proper social distancing, all Yeshivos, Shuls, & most businesses should be reopening immediately! (If the Rosh Hayeshiva is elderly he should remain home & appoint someone in his stead)
    Israel has been very successful containing this virus & is now easing up on social distancing & so should we.
    I believe the mental health cost, missed education, & financial ruin that will result from keeping people locked down much longer is not worth the small risks involved in reopening. I see no real benefit from being locked down another 2-4 weeks.


    All of the governors want to reopen their states ASAP for the SAME reasons you articulate. Aside from the public health concerns, their state budgets are being decimated by lost revenues and massive new expenses, much of which will not be covered by federal grants. Even the Trumpkopf say that each locality must make this decision based on numerical criteria that some states have met and others may need another few weeks. I”l rely on the expert but I think we all look forward to getting back to some semblance of normal.


    I hear that both Governors Coumo and Murphy are looking for advisors to work for them, feel free to send your resume


    Dear Haimy,
    The people who decide the overall benefits, are just catching their breath after a month! They are still to busy to explain to every individual what the merits are. Ask again in 5 years. The danger to any single person, was never that great. The threat to the public health system, is still a very big problem. And, will continue for about 2 years. [the last line is a guesss from people who study this their whole lives.]

    ☕️coffee addict

    And you are entitled to your opinion

    However until you’re in a position of power that’s all it is, an opinion

    If you were you would have more information to have a better opinion, until then I’ll stick with the officials even if they are democrats


    If your in NY call Governor Cuomo and offer your opinion; if in NJ call Governor Murphy. i am sure they are waiting for your opinion.


    Someone remind me the logic of why supermarkets and parks (both sometimes packed as evidenced by recent photos) are okay to remain open but shuls are not.


    As of today there have been 56,820 reported deaths in the US, of COVID-19. To put that into perspective, there were 58,220 US casualties in the entire Vietnam War.
    It’s a pretty huge number, which would be growing exponentially if not for the lockdown measures in place right now.

    To lift these measures prematurely, even with social distancing will only cause the virus to propagate once again. Necessitating another lockdown, likely for an even longer period of time in order to stem the spread.

    To argue that the economic impact is not worth the lives saved, is to put a price on life itself.

    The sort of person to argue otherwise is will also tell you the whole thing will go away “like a miracle”, to inject disinfectant, put a light inside patients and that a big flu shot should help.

    As for children, in the UK they are now reporting an uptick of what is a seemlingly COVID-related inflammatory syndrome with children.

    ☕️coffee addict


    Supermarkets are essential (people need food) shuls aren’t (people can and should daven at home in this situation) (סכנתא חמירה מאיסורא) and evening supermarkets have a limit to the amount of people allowed at one time

    Parks I think are allowed because if they closed the parks people would just walk in the streets so since they’re open it gives more space for people to walk


    @Quayboard, conversely the Yom Kippur war had 11656 Casualties and the Intifada had 9863 casualties, the total casualty count in Israel for covid19 is 208 and they reopened.
    Bottom line both your opinion and Haimy are IRRELVANT!!!


    Bad, bad answer, coffee addict. Shuls aren’t essential?!?!


    How does extreme social distancing help us in the long run? will this virus just decide to leave if everyone stays home? This is only delaying the eventual spread of Covidto everyone Ch”V. The overwhelming majority of those who sadly died were the elderly & immunocompromised. They should definitely continue to self-quarantine.
    The rest of society needs to move on, especially those under 45. My humble opinion.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    Oh pleased Joseph! You know exactly what he means.


    Quayboar: What relevance do the Vietnam deaths have to do with this? Why not compare with other health-related deaths. The actual mortality rate shows that most are in the elderly and those with pre-existing health conditions, so to assume that opening up will cause a spike in deaths is really not borne out by any statistics if special care is taken to protect the most vulnerable in the population.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    Haimy – yes, a virus does leave people after a certain point. Will it leave the earth, assumedly no. But how hard is it to understand that if 1000 (randomly chosen number) people leave their houses after they have all recovered and are no longer positive, it is different from 1000 people leaving their houses while a whole bunch of them are STILL CARRIERS. See the key here is that if you aren’t carrying the virus anymore, you won’t give it to someone. And if you have only been exposed to people in your house, then there should, technically, be a finite amount of time before the virus has run its course through EVERYONE, leaving some untouched perhaps, but the active virus eventually leaves. If we wait til it leaves MOST people, instead of waiting til we are restless and bored, then when people leave their houses there won’t be anything to spread.

    One problem with this is the emotional damage to people being “locked up” for so long, or suffering financial damage (remember the great depression suicide rates?) since the above scenario would probably take a very long time.

    But either way, people shouldn’t be making their decisions based on their inability to put the human population ahead of their own self interest, or their extreme boredom, or politics, or anything else not medically determined as a good idea.

    ☕️coffee addict

    Excellent answer syag 👆

    ☕️coffee addict


    Have you died by shuls being closed?



    Israel can re-open because the lockdown measures have worked so well. It slowed the spread of the virus, and with the use of the intelligence services to track and trace further spread, the country can re-open and any hotspots lockdown as and when necessary.

    The US on the other hand has little to no control over the spread at the moment, no reliable testing already overwhelmed hospitals. To suggest lifting lockdown measures and allow the virus to run rampant once again is laughable

    My comparison to Vietnam is the Vietnam War is a major event and dark stain in US history with countless unnecessary deaths. With a casualty count that is pretty similar to the US COVID-19 death rate.
    Yet people are flippantly suggesting we go back to normal, due to the pressures of “mental health cost and missed education” at risk of another Vietnam War sized casualty count.

    Special care to protect the most vulnerable is already in practice yet doesn’t entirely help. Nursing homes need medical staff to come and go, staff have families and homes of their own and many of these people are receiving treatments etc outside of these homes.


    Coffee Addict, do people who eat treif die from doing so? If not, is therefore eating kosher food not essential?



    “Someone remind me the logic of why supermarkets and parks (both sometimes packed as evidenced by recent photos) are okay to remain open but shuls are not.”

    In addition to the reason already mentioned.
    When shopping you (should) get in get your food and get out. The idea is not to sit there for a while next to other people. The odds of catching something from the brief moment passing another shopper is minimal (though not zero)

    If thats how you daven in shul, well you are doing it wrong.


    Ubiquitin: How’s sitting in a doctor’s waiting room with other patients waiting to see a doctor more essential than sitting in shul beseeching the Creator of the world?


    Pretty horrifying that commenters here are discounting the risk to the elderly.


    Syag: How much longer do we assume people are carriers after being quarantined to 2 months with the same group of people?


    The number of people dying in the US from auto accidents is around 40,000 per year but back in the late 70s and early 80s it was over 51,000 per year. Just a little less than died from Covid -19.. Did any one stop driving then or now? By your definition anyone who speeds or breaks a driving rule or even has a drivers license is a murderer.

    Perhaps schools and shuls should start opening with security that’s there anyway scanning the students’ and or members’ temperature as they enter to insure everyone is well and doesn’t transmit any disease. This is only once the governor gives the all clear and allows them to open.

    ☕️coffee addict


    1) which of the 613 mitzvos is daven in a shul?

    2) if your yiddishkeit is slipping to the point that it’s comparable to eating treif by not being with 9 other people in the same room, you have problems

    You still haven’t answered סכנתא חמירא מאיסורא


    Coffee Addict:

    1) Limud Torah. Which also applies to Yeshivos.

    And that’s just one example. There’s others as well.

    Do you oppose opening Yeshivos? Do you similarly oppose opening other essential services permitted by the government?

    2) You absolutely have no idea what the meaning of davening b’tzibbur is.


    “How’s sitting in a doctor’s waiting room with other patients waiting to see a doctor more essential than sitting in shul beseeching the Creator of the world?”
    very easy actually. one of them you need to get health care and theres no other way to do it, and the other one youre able to do without a minyan (il let you figure out which one is which). Rov rabbonim in america have assured minyanim in shuls (or maybe all idk), so it isnt so hard to say that they might, just might, know better than you. also i know youre a big fan of rav Moshe Shternbuch, so why not take a look at what he says about davening in a minyan, unless of course hes also wrong.


    Syag, you have it exactly backwards. By isolating ourselves we’re retarding the process of developing immunity. We’re keeping ourselves unexposed, so that when we come out we will be just as vulnerable as when we went in. We’ll be like the Native Americans when the Europeans arrived. The Europeans were immune to the diseases they carried; the natives who had no immunity died in huge numbers.


    “How’s sitting in a doctor’s waiting room with other patients waiting to see a doctor more essential than sitting in shul beseeching the Creator of the world?”

    you asked supermarket 1) cant live without and 2) don’t hang around there
    you also asked parks 1) by defintion can spread out.

    now you have a new question doctor’s waiting rooms. Mine is closed I see most patients via teleconfrence (outside of hospital) Most of my colleagues have done the same. A few that dont/cant have reduced booking so no one is waiting near anyone else in a waiting room.

    “Did any one stop driving then or now?”

    Amazing! so in spite of more people driving we REDUCED the number of deaths. I can hear the version of Abbas from 1970s “whats the point of seatbelts, & airbags big deal so 50,000 people died thats life what are we going to stop driving no reason t otry to minimize those deaths”


    Quayboard, the USA’s casualties Vietnam war were exceptionally light, and not a valid comparison. Anyone who thinks Vietnam was bad has no concept of what war really is. The Wuhan Disease casualties are comparable to those of any heavy flu season.

    There is little evidence that the lockdown has had any significant effect on the spread. It was sold to us specifically not not as a way to stem the spread but merely to delay it a little, so as to prevent us all from getting sick at the same time and overwhelming the hospitals. It’s very doubtful whether that was ever a real problem, since it was based entirely on models that proved to be nonsense (as most models are), but even if it was valid that problem is now over. The hospitals are massively UNDER-utilized. Even in NYC we had the Comfort here, and the Javits Center, and barely used them.

    And yes, a life does have a price. Anyone who denies that is just an idiot. And the economic impact has NOT been worth the lives saved. We would have been far better off doing nothing and letting more people die. That is the reality, and shutting down your mind and pretending otherwise will not change it. But of course doing nothing was not the alternative. What we should have done is isolate only the elderly and the particularly vulnerable and then let the disease run through the rest of the community and accept the relatively few casualties that would have resulted (and will still result no matter how long we wait).

    Besides which, even if one is so stupid or dishonest as to think that any expense is worth it to save even one life, the reality is that the economic impact will itself cost more LIVES than have been saved. Poverty kills. Economic damage kills. More people will die from the lockdown than would have died without it, even without considering the economic damage itself.

    And we should certainly hope for miracles, as well as experiment with things like injecting some sort of disinfectant, or putting lights inside patients (which is absolutely an idea that IS being explored), or using vaccines developed for other coronaviruses (which is obviously the FIRST thing being researched). Everything the President has said has been on point, and your Democrat talking points are cynical and wrong.

    ☕️coffee addict

    “1) Limud Torah. Which also applies to Yeshivos. “

    joe can’t learn outside of a shul or a Yeshiva

    “2) You absolutely have no idea what the meaning of davening b’tzibbur is.“

    You obviously have no idea what the meaning of סכנתא חמירא מאיסורא is


    To call needless 58,000 deaths light is abhorrent. 58,000 family’s in mourning, that did not have to be. Much like this disease. Would you be saying the same if it was your loved one?

    The current death rate may be comparable to a flu season but has happened in a matter of weeks rather than an entire flu season. And this is with lockdown measures in place.

    To rely on immunity is preposterous. There is no proven immunity as of yet. There’s no proof it cannot be caught twice.

    Lockdown measures absolutely have worked. The earlier they were implemented, the more effective they were. Much like Israel, Taiwan, Vietnam and Mongolia. Unlike the US, which had Trump completely silent on the matter throughout February, for fear of spooking the stock market.

    I you want to get political, here is what the Great Leader said on the matter through February:

    February 2: “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China.”

    February 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA… Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

    February 25: “I think that’s a problem that’s going to go away… They have studied it. They know very much. In fact, we’re very close to a vaccine.”

    February 26: “The 15 (cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”

    February 26: “We’re going very substantially down, not up.”

    February 27: “One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

    February 28: “Now the democrats are politicizing the coronavirus, you know that right? They’re politicizing it…they have no clue…they dont have any clue…this is their new hoax.”

    February 28: “We’re ordering a lot of supplies. We’re ordering a lot of, uh, elements that frankly we wouldn’t be ordering unless it was something like this. But we’re ordering a lot of different elements of medical.”

    March 2: “You take a solid flu vaccine, you don’t think that could have an impact, or much of an impact, on corona?”

    And if you’re going to defend Trump’s medical knowledge, here are some of his tweets that are somewhat relevant:

    Healthy young child goes to doctor, gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines, doesn’t feel good and changes – AUTISM. Many such cases!

    Many many people are thanking me for what I said about @autism & vaccinations. Something must be done immediately.

    Autism rates through the roof–why doesn’t the Obama administration do something about doctor-inflicted autism. We lose nothing to try.


    “@OnlineOnTheAir: My friend’s son, immediate #autism after #vaccines 10 yrs ago. So sad. Keep up good work Nay-sayers will understand soon


    Oh and as for your big light, that kills viruses is UVc light. Sometimes used to disinfect. It works by damaging the virus’s DNA to stop it replicating.

    Treating a person with such light would cause massive cell damage, resulting in cancers.

    You’d be better off trying to kill the virus with a sledgehammer. The patient wouldn’t suffer quite as much.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    Haimy- Excellent question! And the fact that nobody yet has enough facts to answer it is why many leaders are being overly cautious and why some are balking at it. Technically (on paper, perhaps) if you are locked up with a group, whomever is already sick should be better in 2 weeks. Those who get sick from them somewhere in that two weeks need their own two weeks. If someone then doesn’t catch it until 8 days into their two weeks, and needs their own two weeks….. well, you get the idea.

    In my house, my husband got sick before the whole lock up thing, very early in Chicago’s run. 5 days later 5 other people in the house woke up symptomatic. So we lucked out, all getting it at once. 10 days later they were all free according to CDC. Problem is, the last bunch never got it. So they had to stay quarantined for 14 days, because that’s the incubation period, and I was sick for almost 17 days, was well for 6, and am now feeling sick again. Technically, that would put those guys back in quarantine and it means I still can’t leave the house. It’s day 26 since my first symptoms, I still have symptoms, and if I had been “released” during those 6 days when I was well who knows who I may have infected. And honestly, for all I know it’s not even covid anymore. I thought of getting tested again but if it shows positive, who will even know if the resurgence of symptoms will have anything to do with it or if it’s just “still there” from before.

    The whole things is so nuts, so unknown, so crazy. Do I want to extend the lock up? I don’t know, maybe yes because I’m enjoying the no homework/carpool part of it, but I get that people have had enough. My point is that it’s so unknown that you can’t just let everyone out because you’re bored. Too much possibility remains of spreading this garbage around.


    “The Wuhan Disease casualties are comparable to those of any heavy flu season”

    I don’t understand this argument. you realize that that is 50,000 dead in ADDITION to the flu. If there was an out of control driver barreling down a road into a crowd of say 100 people. would you say who cares, thousands get kiled anyway every year

    “It’s very doubtful whether that was ever a real problem,”

    I don’t understand how that can be doubted. I rounded at several hospitals in the NYC area in all of them critically ill patients were being managed on regular floors by regular nurses.
    It is hard to take anythign you say seriously you doubt reality.

    “What we should have done is isolate only the elderly and the particularly vulnerable”
    The UK tried that. It didnt work so they quickly abandoned it, saving lives

    “or putting lights inside patients (which is absolutely an idea that IS being explored)”
    source please

    “Everything the President has said has been on point”
    Lol! thanks youve made my day. I thought you were being serious with your post. I’m not so sure anymore
    He said he was being sarcastic. Was that on point too?

    Thats said , I’m not opposed to lifting any lockdowns per se. I don’t know enough about epidemiology to have an informed opinion. I do think they should make public what benchmark it is they were looking for to “reopen” Though I suspect that they don’t know, which I grant is a problem.


    Al pi torah no individual has a right to put his life in danger. You need to buy food if not you will die anyway. You must be very careful when you shop not to get or spread the virus. Every person that died got it from someone, Avus Bais Mishna says
    ואַף הוּא רָאָה גֻלְגֹּלֶת אַחַת שֶׁצָּפָה עַל פְּנֵי הַמַּיִם. אָמַר לָהּ, עַל דַּאֲטֵפְתְּ, אַטְפוּךְ. וְסוֹף מְטִיפַיִךְ יְטוּפוּן {כב}:


    Check out Sweden, No broad lockdowns. And they’re doing comparatively better than New York. They’re aiming for getting herd immunity. They’re mainly sequestering only the elderly and vulnerable; not everyone.


    @Millhouse – I prefer to stay out of the discussions here as they go on and one aimlessly. At the risk of getting involved, I want to point out your comment about developing immunity is ignoring several considerations. Not going to debate these all but understand the experts trying to figure out how to reopen and move on from this have to contend with these issues and possibly others that I am not thinking of at the moment:

    1. Evidence from places like South Korea suggests that if properly managed (i.e. once we are out of the community spread stage and have a handle on testing and how has it) is that we can possibly avoid many people getting it, or at least getting it in the near term.

    2. There are many unknowns about people getting this, such as with children, some recent data suggests it is causing some issues there that might best be avoided. From a medical standpoint I believe it is generally considered reckless to suggest exposing people to a disease that is not well understood. Besides children, no one knows the long-term impact to adults who have gotten this.

    3. While it makes sense that those who get this should be immune, this is not clearly understood with this virus yet. Even if immune are you immune to mutated strains, which free-run will result in many?

    4. Spread of this risks mutation into deadlier forms. Any basic understanding of the history of the 1918 flu pandemic would illustrate this risk (it should be mandatory that you read the history of the 1918 flu pandemic before you offer any suggestions regarding this pandemic).

    5. If we are vigilant there still will likely be some spread and eventually the strain that escapes detection will be one that is of minimal concern. That would be a preferred method of how we can get to herd immunity with minimal consequence.

    6. Alternatively to #5, if we can slow the spread of this disease for a year or so, there is a chance that a vaccine will be available.

    There are many questions here and there are those trying to figure out how to balance the medical concerns with the daily life concerns and it is a difficult balance. A mistake can mean disaster. We already saw the consequence of ignoring the risk when we still had a chance to mitigate this, let’s consider if we can find a path that while it does make life a bit difficult for the near future it reduces the chance of a full-scale disaster.

    One final point, there are many that assume the anti-body studies mean much. While they may offer some promising info, jumping to conclusions and acting too soon risks undoing all that we worked towards. An extra few weeks to give up is perhaps better than losing a few more months.


    Sweden’s coronavirus death rate is 30% higher than that of the US despite being a less densely populated country. It has almost 3x as many deaths as its three neighbors Finland, Denmark, and Norway despite a smaller population, as those countries did shut down.

    Sweden has a socialist government — rare for Europe these days. Proof that leftists can be as stupid as Trump.


    “Sweden has a socialist government — rare for Europe these days. Proof that leftists can be as stupid as Trump…”

    indeed, I’ve come to the realization that Biden is almost irrelevant and an after thought. The trajectory of the virus will determine our next President. If the infection/hospitalization/death rates substantially decline before the Summer and the economy appears to be moving back up (as the Stock Market seems to be signaling). than the Trumkopf will win by an even wider margin than 2016. If things don’t improve quickly and/or we see that the “reopening” has triggered a second round of infections, than Trump is toast. There is really nothing that Biden can do to change this dynamic (other than perhaps picking AOC as his “female” running mate).

    anonymous Jew

    I’m very tired of the elitist commentators on cable news condescendingly looking down on and criticizing protestors who want to go back to work. The talking heads , many earning 6 figure and higher salaries, have no empathy for the common working men and women who don’t have the luxury of being able to work from home and get a paycheck. They ignore the 95% protesting in their cars while singling out for ridicule a person holding a sign that they want a haircut.
    We cannot wait until there will no longer be any more linfections/deaths because the economy cannot stay closed for a year. This morning, a front line ER dr in NY pointed out that closing hospitals to all but Clovid cases is also damaging.
    People with chronic diseases ( i.e. diabetes , ) cannot go to clinics for needed routine follow up care. Transplant surgeries have been cancelled. Elective surgeries have been cancelled; how many cancers could have been caught while still easily treatable if endoscopies had not been canceled?
    Hospitals are also being financially destroyed by the virus. Hospitals are not paid by the number days the patient is in a bed; they are paid a single “case rate ” for the entire admission . That is why hospitals tend to push for an average length of stay of 4 days of less. The more admissions into a bed, the more they can bill and Corona patients stay longer than 4 days. So, for example, if a corona patient stays 20 days, the hospital is getting only one payment for that bed instead of possibly 5.

    🍫Syag Lchochma

    AJ- i don’t disagree with anything you say, i just don’t think we can let that decide whether or not to send a virus back to the streets. At the same time i also don’t believe we can discount these points when deciding a date either. Financial devastation is also a tangible danger to some people.


    “other than perhaps picking AOC as his “female” running mate”

    she isn’t old enough.



    Biden cannot pick AOC as his running mate even if he wanted to and the Dems wanted her.
    The VP candidate MUST meet the constitutional requirements for the office of President. AOC is not old enough (35 on Jan 20, 2021) to be sworn in as VP, this she cannot be on the ballot/ticket.

    Daya zogger

    I think everyone can relate to the side of the argument to maintain the lockdowns for the sake of perseving human life.However I think most are missing the counter arguments.Let me list a few ramifications of allowing our economy to continue to shrink past the point of no return, chas vshalom:1.say goodbye to all our kollelim who rely on people’s support and generosity to exist.2.a large number of schools,yeshivas will cease to operate as they too rely on tuition and generous benefactors.3.a large number of frum businesses ( real estate,resteraunts, caterer’s,florists,builders, appliances) will cease to exist.4.if Chalila vchas Trump is not realected do to a poor economy, say hello to sanctioned anti semetism in the name of intersectionality.(, for those unaware what that is, check it up next time you feel like criticizing the President based on some msm article.atleast be aware who you are siding with. or. Ilhan Omar ect) 5.say good bye to tax exemptions for religious institutions 6.say hello to bds and other anti Israel policies.7.say welcome back to the Iran deal.8 say goodbye religious freedom. The list goes on.,I’m not saying which is the right path,but at least be aware of all the facts.


    CT Lawyer: W’eve discussed the constitutional age issue previously. Neither I nor any rational person believe that Biden would select AOC or anyone on the far left as a running mate and then expect to have a chance in the key electoral states where he has to win over moderate voters who gave Trump his win in 2016. My point was sarcastic in that I’m not sure there is ANYTHING Biden could do or any “moonshot” would be available to him if Trump is able to successfully navigate the pandemic, both medically and economically. Likewise, nothing that Trump could do if we don’t “reopen” soon without a major uptick in the death rate. The virus has become the singular factor in American politics. for the foreseeable future.


    I was on this board, and everywhere else I can find, warning people back in Feb and Jan about covid-19 while so many people here were saying it was nothing, or its a cold or its a flu, etc. I sincerely hope that at least a few had thoughts and doubts and listened to me.

    Israel took it seriously. New York did not.

    New Zealand is reopening, they have almost no transmission. They locked down early. Australia. China has schools about to reopen. South Korea tracked and tracked from day 1. Austria came late, made it a law to wear a mask, now they have almost no virus and are re-opening.

    In America? Almost all 50 governors ignored the virus and ignored Trump’s 15 days to stop the spread. We did not track anyone. We did not defeat the virus. So what should we do? Pretend it doesn’t exist, pretend to reopen and whoever dies, dies. Whoever is 20-50 who gets the disease, and gets the blood clots? They’re just be classifed as strokes and heart attacks, not covid-19 which caused it. The Young get it bad, just because their “death” stats aren’t impressive doesn’t mean anything.
    Ignoring that, generally speaking for the nation as a whole, 22 meat plants are shut down due to the virus, not lock-downs. Wal-marts and grocery stores shut down when their employees die, who are not old people. And no one in their right mind will want to congregate and go out to these closed business if they were even open!

    Let’s talk trade. The factories are in the south and Texas. Why should China, Japan, Europe, etc. keep their factories open and invest in new ones to a county with a plague and lack workers, when they can do it all elsewhere without the problems?

    The “civilized” world has, or will defeat the virus, and their economies will be whatever it is. Pretending we’ve done so too in the United States is exactly what will bring us economic woes. We can’t function with this contagion going around. I’m pretty patriotic, but I don’t know what makes us so special that we can survive diseased and sick, while the rest of the world can go to their whatever fests happy and healthy.

    It only takes 4-6 weeks to defeat the virus if you try. It is not a “shutdown” for a year, or even six months unless you let it.
    My suggestion? Leave this failed state and lets go to Israel. At least there I might be too busy to come on in six months saying “I told you so” again.


    Your points 1-3: its debatable what “point of no return” is. And at what point is the loss of lives is preferable over the potential economic fallout.

    I find it difficult to believe anyone is truly qualified to make that decision.

    As for points 4-8, reopening the country prematurely will likely leave the country in an even worse state. If numbers rise sharply again, lockdown will have to be implemented to curspread of the virus.


    Dear Joseph,
    You seem to have strong opinions, but you do not make your points. If we have to guess them, we will guess pointless reasons. [Because if we knew solid reasons for your opinions, we would not disagree with you.] Please respond with what your ideas are. And not why you disagree with mine.
    1. Davening in shul is primarily a communal function. since ancient times, we make kiddush for everyone in shul. We have chazzaros hashatz for those that do not daven. We Teach the masses. We raise funds, and address the communities needs. Since communal activity has ceased, why would we come to the shul only to daven?
    2. What does tefillah b’tzibbur mean to you. What specifically are we missing that we could have?
    3. How would a yeshivah with a crowded beis medrash open? Who would take responsibility?
    4. Businesses that are not essential will not gain much by being open. Who would go to a hotel, eat out, and so on? People do not have the money for extra shopping, either.
    5. The determining factor is if hospitals risk becoming overwhelmed. If that would happen, we would end up in a much stricter lockdown. Would you take the risk?
    6. Herd immunity is at least 75% This like a flu, not the measles. Mot people who are exposed, do not become infected. So you think we can get herd immunity within 2 years?
    7. Coranaviruses have been known to infect humans for over 50 years. There is still no known immunity. Do you know this to be false?


    Everyone is at risk. Most hospitalizations in Wuhan were 64 and under. The problem is communal. It is not about what is better for the individual, even the majority of individuals. We have to stay home to protect the communal interests. Communities -especially ours- are pro life. Therefore, keeping people alive and healthy is tantamount with life itself. Saying that my money comes before someone’s life, is to undercut the meaning of life. Little can be done about the economic impact. Pandemics of this size temporarily disrupt almost all global demand. There is a lot of pain. And humans can only help each other. We cannot ignore it, or make it go away. There has been a major epidemic just about every year this century. A lot of healthcare and science was needed to control and end the majority of them. An opinion will not influence a virus. It takes a lot of data just to start. Relatively little was known about coranaviruses. The major doctors still say ‘I don’t know’ a lot. Why do so many of us here feel like we can answer this question???

    May Hashem grant us salvation from all our suffering.

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