December 6, 2011 2:27 pm at 2:27 pm #601012Feif UnParticipant
There was a story a few days ago in the Israeli news about an avreich who was caught shoplifting. He confessed he had been doing it for a while. What was he stealing? Materna, an Israeli brand of baby formula. He said he had five children at home, and didn’t have money to feed them – so he resorted to stealing.
This shows exactly what the Rambam said: if you learn without trying to earn parnassah for your family, you will end up turning to theft.
I feel pity towards this man. He was raised in a culture that did not even allow the thought that he could go out to work and support his family – if it did occur to him, he had been taught that it was an evil thought that must be purged. Is this what the system is coming to?December 6, 2011 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #833290flowersParticipant
He was raised in a culture that did not even allow the thought that he could go out to work and support his family – if it did occur to him, he had been taught that it was an evil thought that must be purged. Is this what the system is coming to?
How do you know this is why he stooped to theft. Did he say that, or this is your assumption?December 6, 2011 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #833291yungerman1Participant
So you find ONE story and you are already blaming the system? I’m not asking you to be dan lkaf zchus (1. Maybe his parents have no money and couldnt pay for higher education. 2. Maybe he tried to find a job but couldnt. 3. Maybe he has other mental conditions etc..), but why are you so quick to blame the system?
Need I point out that Otisville has many people that did go out to work and were stealing anyway?
Should I mention a scandal or two that has occurred in the MO community -far worse than stealing baby formula- and blame the entire MO methodology?December 6, 2011 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #833292NechomahParticipant
There are plenty of men out there who begin working after a few years of marriage. Who else are the Rebbes and mashgichim out there? It’s a pity that this man felt that he had to stoop to robbery to feed his family. He may not have developed any skills that he felt could get him a job or he just recently lost his job, but it doesn’t mean that he was educated to believe that he should NEVER go to work.December 6, 2011 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #833293skiaddictMember
How on earth do you know that “if it did occur to him, he had been taught that it was an evil thought that must be purged” youre making that up!!! Dont just say things that are prob not true!December 6, 2011 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #833294akupermaParticipant
There isn’t really a close correlation between poverty and crime. If you look at people engaged in the financial services activity, it seems that there is a direct correlation between poverty and honesty (the janitors who are respectably but modestly paid don’t steal, the executives who are paid extememly well send to be much more like to end up in prison). The Kollel person who resorted to crime to boost his income would probably do the same if he was a rich businessman. The problem isn’t poverty, but failure to understand that a rich person is the one who is content with what he gets (not my idea, I plagerized it).December 6, 2011 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #833295BTGuyParticipant
Hi Feif Un.
You make a great point!
I see attitudes, sadly, so prevalent, that limud chol may as well be called limud treif. The hypocrisy of this is that if someone is a wealthy, successful professional, in the very same community, they get tremendous kavod.
This lack of standardized secular education is nonsense, dangerous, and has crippled many of the finest minds among our youth. I see this first hand year after year after year.
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