Time to Walk Away

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  • #1589262

    1
    Participant

    It is time for the frum people who are involved politically, whether those in office or those behind to scenes to leave the Democratic party. Any issue the DNC stands for is against our values.

    #1589358

    laskern
    Participant

    Is it our values to separate families where the Aguda had a statement against it?

    #1589359

    whitecar
    Participant

    Or fix it up from within. Any extreme either way would be awful

    #1589360

    Joseph
    Participant

    Which frum Yid still votes Democrat? Some may still be registered Democrats but they vote Republican. Looking at the 2016 election results you’ll see that all the heavily Orthodox voting districts were heavily red. Looking at the map you could early think those parts of Brooklyn, Monsey and Lakewood were smack in middle of Alabama.

    #1589361

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    It’s not out job to police the world. It’s our job to vote in politicians that help us in our bottom line. Obviously, if all things are equal, we vote in the more morally correct person. But things are never equal, and it’s our job to make sure that we get as the best politician for the community.

    Candidate A) against gay marriage and against School vouchers
    Candidate B) pro gay marriage and pro school vouchers.
    We vote for candidate B.

    If both A&B are pro school vouchers, we vote A.

    #1589394

    adocs
    Participant

    yitzchokm

    Says who? Maybe we should vote for the morally correct candidate (A in your example) and let G-d worry about the school vouchers.

    #1589384

    1
    Participant

    Laskern protecting our borders is one of our values.
    Joseph, some people who follow the CR, most of Williamsburg, a good portion of boro park, flatbush, and other neighborhoods, as well.
    Yitzchokm, that’s where they get you. They slowly shmad us, by giving us money.

    #1589387

    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Yitzchokm,

    It’s highly unlikely that candidates a and b exist

    #1589381

    Dr. Nat
    Participant

    YitzchokM:
    No, we do not. We stand up for morality and vote for the candidate who is against gay rights even if he is against vouchers. We show the upright Christians and everyone else in the county that religious Jews actually have beliefs that they stand up for and we do not perpetrated the horrible chillul Hashem that you have suggested which is to sell ourselves out to the highest bidder who will take our society into the next level of the morass.

    #1589377

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Joseph, that is lashon hara.

    #1589669

    yitzchokm
    Participant

    It’s funny that the very same people that rightfully make fun of the tikun Olam crowd, think it’s their job to police the world’s moral values.

    adocs, that’s what my Ruv says. If your Ruv says differently, kol hakvod.

    1, no. Not really. It’s a conscious decision

    Coffee, true. Because I gave extreme examples. But they do exist in varied ways.

    Dr., not our job. Our job is to raise our children.

    #1589936

    Joseph
    Participant

    1: The Orthodox voting districts in Williamsburg, Brooklyn in 2016 looked like they are in middle of Alabama. Kiryas Yoel also voted for Trump.

    The same people who support toeivaniks oppose school vouchers. The same people who oppose toeivaniks, support school vouchers. So there’s no stira. With the same vote you can vote against the pervert supporters while also supporting vouchers.

    #1589898

    akuperma
    Participant

    The Democrats crossed many red lines long ago, however in New York City (especially) many frum Jews have strong economic reasons for putting up with the Democrats, and when it comes to something relatively insignificant such as the government, many frum Jews are more concerned with parnassah than principles.

    #1590111

    laskern
    Participant

    1, Protecting the borders is our values even it separates families?

    #1590112

    laskern
    Participant

    No one is all good and no one is all bad.

    #1590146

    Avi K
    Participant

    Yitzchokm, on the contrary, we are supposed to be a light unto the nations. This means policing the world.

    Akuperma, that is sadly true to a large extent. Parnassa allows everything and they scream antisemitism when they are caught.

    #1590152

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    The DNC and the RNC both are very much against our values. Walk away from it all, harcheik mei’rabbonus, and only go to them when necessary.

    #1590160

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    The same people who oppose socialized medicine are mostly on Medicaid, Section 8, CHip and other government programs

    #1590131

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “We stand up for morality and vote for the candidate who is against gay rights even if he is against vouchers.”

    When tuition costs 3 times as much as your salary, occupying the moral high ground looks a lot less appealing. People who talk about vouchers might actually do something with vouchers if they get elected. People who talk about gay marriage in 2018 are just pandering and aren’t able to actually change anything nor do they have any intention to do so.

    #1590190

    Joseph
    Participant

    Neville, politicians have been taking about vouchers for over 50 years.

    A lot of good that talk has been.

    #1590207

    1
    Participant

    Besides gay rights. What about the party that is anti-Israel and sympathizes with Hamas? You elect people like Corey Booker, and when they get comfortable and after paying you off, they expose themselves for what they are.

    #1590175

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    If you can still vote for the Trumpkopf and his Republican enablers in Congress and somehow rationalize that you are still voting for “family values” than perhaps its time to acknowledge that dementia has sadly become an issue in your life.

    #1590229

    1
    Participant

    What about the party that signed the iran deal and endangered Israel? What about the party that supports murdering babies?

    #1590247

    Joseph
    Participant

    “What about the party that signed the iran deal and endangered Israel? What about the party that supports murdering babies?”

    May that party forever be destroyed and go into third-party oblivion.

    #1590300

    laskern
    Participant

    1, Look at the mishna in the 7th Perek in Aholos that under certain circumstances the baby is a radof so the mother comes first. אשה שהיא מקשה לילד מחתכין את הולד במיעה The Maharshoh explains that was the reason Pharaoh picked jewish midwifes because the Jews are not commanded on the uborim which is punished heavenly not by beis din. It is only monetary punishment. When it comes to the Iran Deal, Israel is more endangered now because they are not checked in what they are doing.

    #1590321

    1
    Participant

    Laskern you established a while ago that you are a morally skewed person

    #1590308

    laskern
    Participant

    Joseph, your party does not care about the poor, sick, workers and uneducated.

    #1590315

    Joseph
    Participant

    laskern: Are you arguing that you know better what’s best for the State of Israel than the leaders of the State of Israel know?

    #1590306

    1
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Right now, there are jews, “frum” Jews who are in that party.

    #1590135

    Dr. Nat
    Participant

    YitzchokM,

    I am happy that you are concerned only with raising your children. Maybe you can share with me, once homosexuality and transgenderism become completely integrated and accepted within American society thanks to the politicians that you voted for, how you plan on raising your children in this society. Because you will not be able to shelter them.
    Being that your only consideration in chinuch seems to be how to get the government to pay for it, let me share with you a quote that I just heard in the name of a gadol of yesteryear (possibly Rav Leizer Yudel Finkel): The reason why frum families have children who do not follow in their ways is because they pay for their children’s chinuch with money that is unkosher. There is no better definition of this than your case of paying for your kids schools with vouchers obtained through the election of immoral politicians. Maybe you should think about that also.

    #1590355

    laskern
    Participant

    1 – Are you a religious person? Before Yom Kippur, I would be concerned for my own lot and not insult people.

    #1590360

    👑RebYidd23
    Participant

    Both parties are very, very bad, and nobody should support either one.

    #1590358

    1
    Participant

    I’m super religious

    #1590452

    Avi K
    Participant

    Laskern,
    1. That is only if the mother’s life is in danger. Some poskim allow it if the mother’s psychological health would be endangered. However, there is a discussion regarding bnei Noach. See How Are Abortion and Euthanasia Classified in the Noahide Code? including the footnotes (always important).
    2. On the contrary, the highest form of tzedaka is to provide productive work. The Shach says that being that the giver also profits the recipient is not at all embarrassed. The free enterprise system does this best. Moreover, the leftist welfare state has destroyed poor families (I would go into detail but it would probably not pass moderation).

    #1590529

    laskern
    Participant

    I agree, but if the companies are out for themselves by not paying a living wage and their is no job training then the government has to help.

    #1590630

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “Maybe you can share with me, once homosexuality and transgenderism become completely integrated and accepted within American society thanks to the politicians that you voted for”

    It’s already too late; wake up and smell the roses. The Republicans don’t even run on this platform anymore. I agree that it’s a bad thing and that we shouldn’t have let it get to this point, but it’s not getting any better.

    We’re arguing over a theoretical choice. The southern, Republican states are the ones that have good vouchers and they’re also less socially liberal (obviously). So, in reality, of course it’s better for us to vote Republican at this time. But, if the issues ever changed, we should vote based on the issues not the name of the party.

    #1590656

    laskern
    Participant

    1, King Solomon says אל תצדק הרבה don’t be too relgious because you put your emphasis on mitzvos that apply between you and G-d forgetting mitzvos between you and your fellow man and not caring about insulting someone.

    #1590770

    1
    Participant

    Laskern, halevai Jews should have that problem today

    #1590726

    Joseph
    Participant

    Rav Avigdor Miller on Voting for Liberals

    Question:
    Who should we vote for for President?

    Answer:
    We should vote for the one who appears to us to be the most conservative. Now, I can’t tell you who that is. But there’s no question that the conservatives of today are extremely more liberal than the liberals of thirty years ago. We have already advanced so far beyond the borders of liberalism, that today we can afford to retreat many miles behind these boundries and still remain in the forefront of liberalism. And therefore, today there’s no such thing as too much conservatism. You have to vote for conservative candidates on every level – on national, state and city levels.

    That’s my opinion. By the way, nobody here has to agree with me – on anything. Only, I don’t have to agree with you either.

    TAPE # 133 (July 1976)

    #1591183

    laskern
    Participant

    1, Look up the Midrash Samuel on the Misnah איזהו דרך ישרה שיבור האדם who says that mitzvos among the fellow Jews comes before mitzvos between us and Hashem.

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