October 8, 2018 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #1600912
Although I think the idea of Waiter/Waitresses are silly people who patronize these establishments must tip the Waiters/Waitresses properly which is 15-20% of the bill or you aare making a chillul Hashem. I am a Mashgiach Temidi for one of the local vaadim @ one of these establishments & one of the waiters told me yesterday that Jews don’t tip properly or @ all which is a huge chillul Hashem.October 8, 2018 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm #1600998
Tipping is totally optional.October 8, 2018 7:30 pm at 7:30 pm #1601009
That isn’t a chilul Hashem. Stick to your job. Tell their bosses to give them raises. The prices of kosher are expenses as is and you are part of the cost.October 8, 2018 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #1601021WolfishMusingsParticipant
Tipping is totally optional.
So is saying “excuse me” after burping.
The WolfOctober 8, 2018 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #1601016
Tipping is not optional, which defeats the supposed purpose and is in fact very silly, but if you don’t tip, the waiter basically doesn’t get paid.October 8, 2018 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #1601013
Maybe if kosher prices weren’t too high, people would have more money to tip. Stick to your job.October 8, 2018 9:51 pm at 9:51 pm #1601074
Tipping is not optional if it causes a chillul Hashem & unless you tip the waiter/waitress at least 15-20% it a chillul Hashem if they are not Jewish. I myself think Waiter/Waitress Service is silly as we are not babies & can bring the food to table ourselves but if you patronize a place that offers this service it’s a chillul Hashem not to tip at least 15-20% & if you can’t afford to tip them order the food for pickup & take it home or don’t patronize that establishmentOctober 8, 2018 11:59 pm at 11:59 pm #1601079
RebYidd23 the store owner is supposed to pay the waiterOctober 9, 2018 12:00 am at 12:00 am #1601081
What do you mean by “stick to your job”?October 9, 2018 12:08 am at 12:08 am #1601121
The store owner is supposed to pay the waiter, but the fact is that the system is this way, and within this stupid system, it is wrong not to tip.October 9, 2018 12:08 am at 12:08 am #1601118yehudayonaParticipant
He is sticking to his job. He’s not berating the restaurant’s patrons, he’s pointing out that workers who depend on tips ought to be tipped. If you can afford to eat in a restaurant, you can afford to tip.October 9, 2018 6:37 am at 6:37 am #1601162
Tipping is totally optional.
No it isn’t.
Maybe if kosher prices weren’t too high, people would have more money to tip. Stick to your job.
If you can’t afford the tip, don’t go to a restaurant. The price of kosher food in no way justifies withholding the waiters their due.October 9, 2018 8:57 am at 8:57 am #1601209
I am doing my job. I am just making people aware of the chillul Hashem they are causing.October 9, 2018 9:04 am at 9:04 am #1601203
The job of a mashgiach temidi is not to tell people what they should do with their money; it’s to make sure that the food the customers are eating is kosher. Not everybody who eats out can afford to tip. The prices of kosher food leave less money for customers to tip.October 9, 2018 10:58 am at 10:58 am #1601218
Its the responsibility of the restaurant owners to pay their employees fairly, not the customers. Customers already pay the price of labor.October 9, 2018 11:00 am at 11:00 am #1601249anIsraeliYidParticipant
Although tipping is technically optional, it is expected unless the services was particularly poor. In fact, tipping is so standard that there are laws that take this into account – whether it is the law that allows a lower minimum wage for waiters since there is a presumption that they will receive an additional amount as tips, or the fact that waiters have to include a certain percentage of the bill for tables they serve in their taxable income, since it is presumed that a tip for at least that amount was received – and as tips are often paid in cash, it would otherwise be easy for the waiter to just not report and pay tax on such income.
So yes, tipping wait staff properly is not only an issue of being a “mentch” – if you don’t do so, you’re litterally taking money away from such staff.
an Israeli YidOctober 9, 2018 11:00 am at 11:00 am #1601276
The prices of kosher food leave less money for customers to tip
Worst argument ever.
The tip should be factored in when you figure what you’re able to afford.
If you believe that someone deserves a tip, not giving it to them just because you spent your money elsewhere is selfish at the least.
Also just a side point about tipping: that extra few dollars means a lot more to the waiter than it does to you.October 9, 2018 11:11 am at 11:11 am #1601325
Maybe every employee should get a tip? Maybe the cashier at a grocery should get ripped as wellOctober 9, 2018 11:16 am at 11:16 am #1601329
If you feel the waiter did a good job (though most times it’s the chef who’s slow or if food is made too fast it won’t come out right) it’s your right to tip. Paying waiter shouldn’t be thr responsibility of the customer. The customer already pays for labor.October 9, 2018 11:17 am at 11:17 am #1601328
Maybe every employee should get a tip? Maybe the cashier at a grocery should get ripped as well
Maybe you’re right, but that’s not really relevant to this discussion.
The fact is that waiters’ salaries are based on the assumption that they will be supplemented by tips. This is not the case with other employees.October 9, 2018 11:30 am at 11:30 am #1601340
“The fact is that waiters’ salaries are based on the assumption that they will be supplemented by tips. This is not the case with other employees.”
Why is the customer responsible for the salary level or compensation level of employees at a business he’s only a consumer at? Logically that’s entirely the responsibility of the business owner, not his customers.October 9, 2018 11:38 am at 11:38 am #1601342
Why is the customer responsible for the salary level or compensation level of employees at a business he’s only a consumer at? Logically that’s entirely the responsibility of the business owner, not his customers.
Maybe you’re right, but once there is an expectation that people will tip, and salaries are set based on that expectation, it is completely improper not to tip just because you don’t agree with the system.October 9, 2018 11:44 am at 11:44 am #1601348
Meno so we should all be sheep and followOctober 9, 2018 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm #1601359
Meno so we should all be sheep and follow
Glad that we agreeOctober 9, 2018 12:10 pm at 12:10 pm #1601355GenyaParticipant
Maybe if people would not FRESS themselves in restaurants as often as they do, they would have money to TIP when they did go.October 9, 2018 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm #1601509
What else do people do in restaurants besides dress?October 9, 2018 1:23 pm at 1:23 pm #1601965Shopping613 🌠Participant
Tipping is entirely optional.
I’ve been to places that don’t pay salaries and the tip gets included on the bill in the total cost.
I assume most places where I live, in Israel pay salaries.
If I feel like tipping I will.
If my waiter didn’t do a good job I definitely won’t.October 9, 2018 9:57 pm at 9:57 pm #1602333
There’s a difference between “should be” and “is”.October 9, 2018 10:03 pm at 10:03 pm #1602339
In the USA tipping is expected. The IRS will affix a minimum 8% tip level to server’s income if it feels tips are under-reported. Servers in restaurants have to tip out set percentages to bartenders, hostesses and busboys. So, if you stiff the server, he/she may still have to take 5% of the checks for the shift out of his.her pocket and pay the other workers. Then he/she may get a tax bill for that income not made.
15% went away in the 1980s. 20-25% of the pre tax bill is a proper tip in 2018. If you cannot afford to tip, go to a joint without table service, you don’t have to stay home. BUT, if you have service pay for it.
Similarly, push your state legislators to raise servers’ minimum wage to the same as everyone else and get rid of tipping altogether.October 9, 2018 10:05 pm at 10:05 pm #1602345
I was trying to bring a point that it’s ossur to do anything that causes a chillul Hashem & not tipping waiters at least 15-20% is a big chillul Hashem.October 9, 2018 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #1602363
Also if the waiter/Waitress doesn’t do a good job & you feel they don’t deserve a tip or less of a tip you are mechuyav to tell the Waiter/Waitress that you are not tipping them because of their bad service this way they know why you didn’t tip them & would avoid the chillul Hashem.October 9, 2018 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm #1602400
“15% went away in the 1980s. 20-25% of the pre tax bill is a proper tip in 2018.”
This is inaccurate. 15% tipping was still commonly recommended in the early 2000s. Then they got greedy and raised the recommended tipping percentage. And they also started about that time to recommend tipping for workers that previously never expected a tip.October 9, 2018 11:52 pm at 11:52 pm #1602401
“Also if the waiter/Waitress doesn’t do a good job & you feel they don’t deserve a tip or less of a tip you are mechuyav to tell the Waiter/Waitress that you are not tipping them because of their bad service this way they know why you didn’t tip them & would avoid the chillul Hashem.”
That does nothing to reduce the alleged chillul Hashem. The waiter will hate you, or Jews, all the same if not more if you tell him to his face that he provided shoddy service so you’re not tipping him, then if you simply walked out without a tip or a comment.
Furthermore, your idea of telling him why you’re not tipping does nothing to alleviate many of the above reasons given in this thread as to who tipping is allegedly mandatory.October 10, 2018 12:14 am at 12:14 am #1602434
If you just want to convey a message but want to be careful not to cause a chillul Hashem, tell him to his face that the service was substandard, and tip 25%.October 10, 2018 12:21 am at 12:21 am #1602437
Why allegedly? Do you think Rav Belsky didn’t actually write that? Does anyone disagree?October 10, 2018 12:35 am at 12:35 am #1602442
I didn’t see anything about Rav Belsky commenting on this issue. But even if he did you can’t assume other poskim who didn’t comment on the issue necessarily agree with him.October 10, 2018 12:39 am at 12:39 am #1602450
I didn’t see anything about Rav Belsky commenting on this issue.
I posted a link above
But even if he did you can’t assume other poskim who didn’t comment on the issue necessarily agree with him.
Au contraire, you can’t assume anyone disagrees without reliable information.October 10, 2018 1:58 am at 1:58 am #1602460
You can’t assume anyone disagrees, true, but you can’t assume anyone agrees either, in the absence of them so saying.October 10, 2018 8:15 am at 8:15 am #1602518
Who is THEY? you refer to…….
As of the 1990s most travel guides for tourists coming to NY listed 20% as the expected or common tip percentage.
It wasn’t about being greedy, but providing servers with a living wage.
In 2018 any 16 year old working at McDonald’s here in CT starts at state minimum wage of $10.10 hour, but a 45 year old server with 25 years experience is legally only paid the server’s minimum wage rate of $6.38 and is expected to earn the difference through tips.
In NY, that kid at McDs gets $7.50/hr minimum wage and the experienced server is paid $4.00 plus tips.
If you and Mrs. J go into a sit down restaurant for lunch and the bill is $60 before tax. A $12 tip is appropriate. The server will be expected to tip out $3 to other personnel on your check. The $9 for serving you for an hour is not much. Remember for much of the shift, it is not lunch time and business and tip income may be lower.
I support a $15 minimum wage bill (coming in CT) and no tippingOctober 10, 2018 9:12 am at 9:12 am #1602541
You can’t assume anyone disagrees, true, but you can’t assume anyone agrees either, in the absence of them so saying.
Which leaves us that it’s a chiyuv, and not just “alleged”.October 10, 2018 11:30 am at 11:30 am #1602703TheGoqParticipant
“Maybe every employee should get a tip? Maybe the cashier at a grocery should get ripped as well”
As a cashier sometimes I work the outside register (selling plants,ice,snacks) sometimes someone will give me a tip or when I’m out there and I see someone needing assistance to get their groceries to their car ( not my job but if a cart guy is not around and I see someone elderly or handicapped that needs assistance i help out) sometimes they will give me a buck. Never expected but always appreciated.October 10, 2018 11:57 am at 11:57 am #1602763
Hi, Goq!October 10, 2018 12:28 pm at 12:28 pm #1602788
In NY, that kid at McDs gets $7.50/hr minimum wage and the experienced server is paid $4.00 plus tips.
Why is that ludicrous?October 10, 2018 12:42 pm at 12:42 pm #1602792
DY: If Rabbi A issues a ruling on an issue no other rabbi addressed, his ruling isn’t universally binding.October 10, 2018 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #1603154
Tipping is something the #MeToo movement should have gotten rid of.October 10, 2018 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #1603268Reb EliezerParticipant
Expectation from having a beard and peyos and chasidishe garb for example does create a chilul Hashem see Rambam Hilchas Yesodei Hatorah 5:11.October 10, 2018 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #1603274shimenParticipant
There was an article in one of the yiddish magazines ‘Inyan?) few years ago an interview with one of the SATMAR REBBES ZT’L hois baucher (personal attendant..have his name) on the Rebbes daily down to earth life (in the 50’s). Among the episodes he mentioned , there was once when he came home with the Rebbe with taxi. After they went into apt the Rebbe asked him ‘did you give tip?’ he said ‘No’ and the Rebbe was upset and told him ‘Dont you know in America the minhuk is to tip?, also you caused a chillil Hashem’October 10, 2018 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #1603288
Do you think any experienced adult should work for $4 per hour from the employer and have to live on the generousity of customers?
That’s what is ludicrous!
I read threads here in the CR that teenagers get $10/hr to babysit, why should an adult working a regular job get 40% of that?
NY is way behind the times when it comes to minimum wagesOctober 10, 2018 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #1603443
Higher minimum wages causes job losses.October 10, 2018 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #1603464TheGoqParticipant
Thank you DY and Joseph I am not the prolific poster i once was but i am always reading.
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