To Lie

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  • #610199
    pixelate
    Member

    What is the issur for lying, and is it permitted to lie to save your reputation, or if the question is none of their business in the first place?

    #968493
    Sam2
    Participant

    See Kesubos 17a and the Rishonim there as well as the Rishonim on Bava Metzia 61a (give or take).

    #968494
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    You can lie for sholom. Like if the truth will make someone mad at you. Like if your wife wants to know why you are late for dinner and you were at the pub so you say you were at work.

    #968495
    Sam2
    Participant

    Also see Bava Metzia 23a.

    #968497
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Also see Bava Metzia 23a.

    Also see sanhedrin 75c which I have convinced my wife says that it is a mitzva to eat meat and drink beer every night of the week.

    #968498
    Sam2
    Participant

    PBA: That is not what it means when it says you’re allowed to lie in learning. See the Yam Shel Shlomo Bava Kama 4:9.

    #968499
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I’m not using that heter. I’m using the mipnei sholom heter. Otherwise she’ll be mad at me for drinking so much beer.

    #968501
    HaLeiVi
    Participant

    You can lie to spare embarrassment.

    The Pasuk in the Torah is talking about Eidus. When the Gemara talks about not meaning a promise you are making to someone we Darshen Hin Tzedek, that your yes should mean yes and no should really mean no.

    Simple conversational lying is a bad Mida, and is included in the Pasuk in a general sense. On this the Gemara says that Kat Shakranim are not Mekabel Pnei Hashechina.

    When a nosy person is intrusively asking you something personal, you do not have to answer. It is best to avoid or skirt the issue if possible, or try to give misleading or hollow answers. When left with no choice, having said something that isn’t true, when the person doesn’t deserve the truth, does not place you in the Kat Shakranim.

    #968502
    Sam2
    Participant

    Popa: My Makor still applies. Look it up.

    #968503
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I won’t. Unless you link to hebrewbooks

    #968504

    There are definitely situations in which it is permitted to lie (see Kesubos 16 for the Hillel/Shammai machlokes on keitzad merakdim). However, I am not certain whether or not a heter exists for the situations you mentioned.

    Credit to my husband.

    #968505
    Shopping613 🌠
    Participant

    YI dont lie, i just convince the other person that i didnt do it.

    #968506
    superme
    Member

    The only time that I heard that you can lie is for shalom bayis!!

    (plus to save your life- its not one of the 3 things you should die..)

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