August 30, 2009 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #657404
This shidduch business has gotten really strange since my day (which was not that recent 😉
Are people looking for a partner in a bayis neeman b’Yisroel or shopping for a car? If I had a daughter in shidduchim right now I would be in therapy for anxiety too!
In regards to heritability, most serious psychiatric problems are not “inherited,” or the odds are so small that they can be ignored. The only sure way to be at risk is to marry the identical twin of someone who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia. Most “minor” problems are the result of life experience (which can, however, include a difficult home situation). For most medical conditions, the problem isn’t inherited. What can be inherited is the tendency to develop the illness under certain conditions, for instance, late-onset diabetes in someone severely overweight. BTW, epilepsy isn’t a psychological problem, it’s a physical medical condition, and it can only be “inherited” by things like car accidents, meningitis, or a blow on the head.
Be very careful when thinking about “inheriting” medical problems. Most of the media reports on medical conditions aren’t the most accurate. Some of them shout that they’ve discovered “The Gene” for some condition, and the next study proves them wrong, or the specifications for inheriting it are rare.
Bottom line: Only worry about inheriting something if Dor Yeshorim is testing for it. They’re the ones with the scientific knowledge. And yes, you should get tested, and check BEFORE you get serious.August 31, 2009 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #657406
I think all of you posting should sit back and think for a few minutes before posting your two cents. I hope you all realize that people could be going for therapy for all sorts of reasons, from simple things as needing professional advice on certain minor matters that not always could parents offer that, to needing therapy for being physically, sexually, and or emotionally abused. So yes if someone is going or went for therapy for being abused then they would want their spouse to know, but if someone went for professional advice yes I reiterate again advice that they were unable to get from their parents, then why is it something that they should want to say while they are dating? I see no importance to informing your date nor will they really understand your intensions for doing what HAD TO BE DONE! The problem really is the stigmas that our community tends to attach to people that went for therapy. How many understand what therapy is all about, some do have unfortunate abuse cases, but for most its advice that many times a person will refuse to hear when it comes from the family and that is really the reason people would want to refrain from saying during the shidduch.August 31, 2009 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #657407
itiswhatitis: Good post.August 31, 2009 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #657408
iswhatitis- If you read most of what I wrote dealt with MENTAL ISSUES, not people seeking advice from professionals. I am sorry if it was unclear but all I meant was that if there is a mental issue, then you should tell the prospective side the extent of it. Common advice and needing someone as a sounding board for their ideas (not because of any “issues”) does not fall into the category of my comments. I only want to stop people from hiding real issues from the prospective side to stop so many divorces and family issues because one side hid something really important from the other.
Thank you for your misunderstanding. 😉August 31, 2009 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #657409
By the way schizophrenia can be inherited. Not just as you say “The only sure way to be at risk is to marry the identical twin of someone who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia.” It is not small enough a chance to worry. It can be genetic,or a fluke or conditions in the womb. or it can happen because of life choices someone makes (drugs ect) Schizophrenia is quite severe and should be taken seriously and the person NEEDS HELP. Dont say that “if dor yeshorim isnt testing for it you shouldnt worry. Dor yeshorim mostly tests for JEWISH GENETIC diseases and ones prevalent to many in the Jewish community (because of where they came from).
Other thing are genetic (diabetes is one of them. It is normal to test children of certain types of diabetes, especially when the diabetes is severe and not due to weight or other conditions ect)
Some things are definitely not (as far as current data): spina bifida, epilepsyAugust 31, 2009 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #657410
HSS, although Type I diabetes does have a genetic component, it is not the standard of care to routinely screen children (or other first-degree relatives) of diabetics for the disease. Of course if one family member is diabetic, parents will probably be more likely to notice the typical symptoms (excessive drinking/ urination, weight loss) & will probably test the child’s blood sugar on their own if they are concerned.
Regarding Chevra Dor Yeshorim, it is my understanding that they screen only for fatal genetic diseases, but not for other Jewish diseases such as Gaucher’s.August 31, 2009 10:29 pm at 10:29 pm #657411
In my earlier post about screening first-degree relatives of diabetics, I meant testing of blood/ urine in the absence of any typical symptoms (which is what screening means). Of course if the child has any of the typical symptoms any competent physician will test blood and urine as necessary.September 1, 2009 12:30 am at 12:30 am #657412
anon- it is not standard but doctors are aware of the genetic component. That is why when you go to a new doctor, they give you a form to fill out which asks you for your vital information (illnesses you may have C”V) and your immediate family’s info. This is true even when your medical records were sent over- they have a simple reference sheet. One of the diseases they specifically ask for is diabetes. But it isnt purely genetic so it shouldnt have much to do with shidduchim. Many people have it and the rest of their family has no sign of it so shidduchim shouldnt rest on something small like that.September 1, 2009 3:00 am at 3:00 am #657413
HSS, I am not debating that there is some genetic component to Type I diabetes, or discounting the importance of a family medical history. In fact there is a long-term study of first-degree relatives of diabetics investigating the role that infant feeding may play in the development of Type I. The study presumes that first-degree relatives are more likely to develop diabetes, and is determining whether use of a special formula may reduce the risk.
I think I misunderstood your earlier post to imply that routine screening of first-degree relatives was the standard of care. Therefore I pointed out that routine screening of first-degree relatives of Type I diabetics is not commonly done; rather they are tested if they present symptoms.
Regarding shidduchim I agree that concern about a first-degree relative with Type I diabetes is misplaced. While Type I diabetes is serious, most people who are dating are of an age that it is unlikely that they will develop Type I if they are not already symptomatic.September 1, 2009 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #657414
After being personally invovled with 2 such shidduchim (one a medical condition and one mental/therapy issue). In both situations the affected party was told by a rov (each a different one) to tell before it gets serious/emotionally involved. Obviously each situation is different and in both situations, they each remained in consultation with their respective rov throughout the dating process. And guess what, the girl who had seen a therapist for anxiety/ocd got engaged to the boy she was dating even though she “revealed” her secret. When done at a proper time, it doesn’t seem as scary or threatening, and the other party can make a levelheaded decision about the situation. Rav Dovid Cohen is known for being an expert on such shidduch related issues and you may want to consult him.
Good Luck!September 1, 2009 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #657415
anon- It was a misunderstanding on my part as well… I thought you were disagreeing with the genetic part. Forgive me?September 1, 2009 9:21 pm at 9:21 pm #657416
HSS, I wasn’t upset, so there’s nothing to forgive.September 1, 2009 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #657417
I was just worried…. Glad to know we’re still CR-buddies… 😉September 2, 2009 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #657418
you know, i wish people would actually do some research before posting. I know for a fact that type 1 diabetes is not genetic. type 2 is. anyways lets stick to the topic…back to therapySeptember 2, 2009 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #657419
Gezuntheit, actually many researchers do believe there is a genetic component to Type I diabetes. Google “TRIGR” for more information about the long-term study I mentioned above, & ask your primary care physician or endocrinologist for more info about genetic predisposition to Type I.September 2, 2009 11:00 pm at 11:00 pm #657420
Gezuntheit – I agree with you, it started out as a therapy discussion and then somehow landed up in a genetic disease discussion. I think we should go back to the original posters opening discussion!September 4, 2009 3:58 am at 3:58 am #657421
iswhatitis; so what else do you want to talk about?September 4, 2009 12:12 pm at 12:12 pm #657422
Shaindel – seizures can be caused by all kinds of things. I had a mysterious seizure when I was 17 and had a bad cold and have never had another one since. If the seizures are caused by a brain injury, or something that occurred at birth then it is not a genetic condition. If you mean the conditions epilepsy or narcolepsy, then there may be a genetic component but no one is sure how.
Schizophrenia could be related to a mother having had flu while pregnant.
Dor Yeshorim most certainly does screen for Gaucher’s Disease and other non-fatal conditions at this time.
Down’s Syndrome does NOT run in families. Its prevalence, real or imagined, in haimish families is because the chances of a baby born with it increase with the mother’s age.
Being Ingarisch is a genetic advantage which you just have to be born with but you can fake it as I do by listening to Lipa and Michoel Schnitzler albums and learning both English and Yiddish from them. Learning to eat galle (which in other dialects of Yiddish is known as d-eck) is an even bigger advantage but it may not be the best thing to tell a prospective kallah that you like to eat.September 4, 2009 1:10 pm at 1:10 pm #657423
A6KB, regarding Dor Yeshorim, do you mean to say that if both prospective partners carry the gene for Gaucher’s that Dor Yeshorim will reply that the match is incompatible, just as if they both carried the gene for Tay-Sachs? Would you have a list of all the diseases Dor Yeshorim screens for?September 4, 2009 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #657424
I think that yes, they respond that there is a problem with the match.
Here is what Wikipedia (unreliable and if you want to see how bad it is look up Creedmoor Psychiatric Center!!) lists but the Gaucher was not optional when I took it 4 yrs ago – it was included:
* Tay-Sachs disease
* Familial dysautonomia
* Cystic fibrosis
* Canavan disease
* Glycogen storage disease (type 1)
* Fanconi anemia (type C)
* Bloom syndrome
* Niemann-Pick disease
* Mucolipidosis (type IV)
* Gaucher’s disease (only by request)September 4, 2009 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #657425
I was asked if I wanted to be tested for Shabbos Tablecloth Incompatibility Syndrome. My reply cannot be printed here.September 4, 2009 2:14 pm at 2:14 pm #657426
A6KB, thanks for correcting me.September 4, 2009 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #657427
If Wiki is right then you corrected me :). What I do remember very well is being asked if I was Sefardi as apparently they also test for familial Mediterranean fever or beta-thalassemia (or are they the same thing).September 4, 2009 2:39 pm at 2:39 pm #657428
The two disorders are different.September 4, 2009 4:01 pm at 4:01 pm #657429
can we PLEASE stick to the topic! therapy/anxiety/shidduchim
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