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I made an account just to combat the ignorance being spread around these days (after reading some of the comments on R’ Yair Hoffman’s article).
To all of you giving the “Well your kids are vaccinated and safe anyway argument, so why do you care what I do?”: As others have mentioned there are many people (immunosuppressed population) that are unable to be vaccinated for various reasons, and rely on us to protect them from the spread of infectious disease. Also (and possibly more important) there is a concept in immunology called antigenic shift (and antigenic drift, which is slightly different but the same idea). What this means is that viruses (and to a lesser degree, bacteria) replicate so quickly and often that they sometimes produce “new strains” that our current immunity may not be protective against. If C’V people stop vaccinating and are foolish enough to allow their children to be exposed to these horrible diseases, the viruses can potentially mutate enough to infect healthy populations as well! (Although this most likely will not apply to certain toxoid vaccines like DTapP but still possible, just less likely) That is another reason to be concerned as the mishugoyim not protecting their children.
Next point: To whomever is foolish enough to not understand that vaccines work: n 1920, 469,924 measles cases were reported, and 7575 patients died; 147,991 diphtheria cases were reported, and 13,170 patients died, 107,473 pertussis cases were reported, and 5099 patients died. (From the CDC website, these are all publicly available numbers). that just these 3 diseases in 1 year!!!!!!! NOt to mention polio, smallpox, tetanus, Hepatitis, HiB, Pneumococcal pneumonia, etc etc. How many people do you know that still die from these machlos? No one! because we have vaccines, Thank G-D! Why would anyone be foolish enough to take one of the greatest advancements and gifts we have been given and throw it out is beyond me!
Illustrative point: Imagine if someone’s child got sick with strep C’V. We can easily treat strep these days with antibiotics. True there are some mild side effects and rarely someone can even have a serious allergic reaction, but of course no sane person would refuse this treatment knowing that the disease can progress to Scarlet fever and/or endocarditis! Not vaccinating is even worse!
People these days are so spoiled and do not understand the gravity and destruction caused by these diseases in the past. I only know what I learned about them from medical school because Thank G-D I never saw one of these horrible diseases due to vaccination (how R’ Shmuel Kaminetzsky could say they are a scam is beyond me, must be he is being misquoted or did not have the right information).
One last note: ask your grandparents about friends or relatives that suffered through these diseases. I will bet you if they are old enough they know people that DIED from them. My grandparents told me about how excited they were when they came to America and had the opportunity to have their children get vaccinated so they could have the peace of mind that comes with knowing that their children were protected.
I could go on for pages and pages about the various diseases we prevent with vaccine and the millions of lives saved, but I have no time to do so, and I believe my point is clear enough.
Please, I beg you to stop this nonsense!
You are talking like you have found a new religion. I can tell because you are not talking about the risks of vaccines. Everything in life has risks. With vaccines you are shoving diseases inside people’s bodies – children actually – along with preservatives and metal blades. There are risks in doing that. And there’s plenty of evidence that many children have had their lives destroyed that way. So people have to weigh the risks, like they do when they have surgery. The pro-vaccine people are as irrational as they claim the anti-vaccine people to be.
I was very impressed with Reb Shmuel’s comments that he had the courage to take on the arrogant doctors and if you want to check out some hard core arrogance, a physician is your best bet for that. What the good Rabbi meant is that there’s big bucks in the vaccine business. And the whole thing has gone overboard. When I was a kid I got a few shots. Today, it’s dozens and dozens of them. It’s big business and the casualties are kept out of the medical research. So don’t be naive.
Owl
“And there’s plenty of evidence that many children have had their lives destroyed that way”
Care to provide ANY evidence? Let alone “plenty”
You say ” What the good Rabbi meant is that there’s big bucks in the vaccine business.”
Question for you: How much do you think a pediatrician makes for adminisering a vaccine? Im curious to hear your guess
There are reasons to sometimes be nervous, but not of well established vaccines such as the ones for polio and measles. The best “horror” story is the fear of something such as “Des” which was given to problems in pregnancy and the ill effects are only observed when the offspring reach adulthood 20+ years later. However for diseases with immediate bad effects (such as death or severe disability), and where Jewish children are clearly at risk (meaning its a common disease, not a sexually transmitted one)where there are years of experience, and where the disease can have serious threats to life, there is no reason for any sane person not to get the vaccines.
Before you preach, just find out how much money the government has paid out for vaccine-damaged children, in particular brain damage. It gets hushed up by the doctors, but the facts are there.
And if you say it is only a small number of children, would you like your own child to be one of those statistics?
What if you have an allergy?
markblik
“but the facts are there.”
where?
I’d be happy to dis-spell any misconceptions, false information you have been fed
“And if you say it is only a small number of children,”
I dont
owl: R’ Shmuel said that all of them, even the Salk (polio) vaccine are hoaxes. According to him, what happened to polio?
I was very impressed with Reb Shmuel’s comments that he had the courage to take on the arrogant doctors . . .
Being a Talmud Chacham does not necessarily give one the ability to make sensible comments about matters of science.
I think you are ascribing the words of Rav Shmuel’s wife to him. Read the original news story from Baltimore.
If your wife made public statements, and then a newspaper called to ask you if you agreed with them, just what would you respond?
PBA: IDK what I’d respond but I’d consider it my greatest responsibility to distance myself from those life threatening words.
If your wife made public statements, and then a newspaper called to ask you if you agreed with them, just what would you respond?
“No comment.”
If Rav Shmuel was your posek, would you go against his Psak and vaccinate?
When was there a psak issued?
If Rav Shmuel was your posek, would you go against his Psak and vaccinate?
I’d find another Posek.
Someone uninformed could come to the decision that readers here tend not to vaccinate based on the ignorant (and worse) comments. I believe it is a flawed sample. Someone probably forwarded around the article to bring these people to comment.
Bottom line: the trained people analyzed and concluded that the benefits greatly outweigh the risks. The untrained people launch ad hominem attacks on the trained people. The stupid people get confused.
The question is regarding solutions. Ideas?
markbilk:
“And if you say it is only a small number of children, would you like your own child to be one of those statistics?”
and would you like YOUR child to be one of those to get a disease for which there is a vaccine?
Acids -“and would you like YOUR child to be one of those to get a disease for which there is a vaccine?”
Unfortunately, there are a lot of Frum people who don’t vaccinate!
From YWN news:
“5 Children Battling A Potentially Fatal Bacteria In Bnei Brak”
Cases of disease that there are vaccinations against!
Health
From your words it seems like you’re agreeing with me.
But from your exclamation marks it looks like you’re arguing with me.
Which is it?
DrMW, I commend you for a valiant attempt, but unfortunately, you’re wasting your time. You will never convince the Anti-Vaxxers.
Owl, it’s interesting that you commit precisely the obfuscation of which you accuse DrMW (but of which he was not guilty – reading the full text of his post will make this clear); instead of responding to his points, you simply counter with scare tactics and empty rhetoric, but no actual data. I also disagree with your assertion that today we administer “dozens and dozens” of vaccines. This is an exaggeration even The Donald wouldn’t have used. None of my children received, or were even offered, more than the standard series of vaccines, which included about ten injections total per child before puberty (although I might be off by one or two).
this is a serious issue.
Adocs -“But from your exclamation marks it looks like you’re arguing with me.”
I always use exclamation marks. It doesn’t mean anything!
Case after case of infectious disease in the Frum community, due to lack of proper vaccination!
Exclamations are supposed to be meaningful!
I honestly didn’t have patience to read this long drooshis but why Don people wanna vaccinate? The autism theory was proven not true already so??
I honestly didn’t have patience to read this long drooshis but why Don people wanna vaccinate? The autism theory was proven not true already so??
Because, no matter how improbable, illogical or stupid the hypothesis, and no matter how much evidence you produce against it, you will always find a crackpot fringe who believes in it:
Vaccines cause autism. The world is flat. The moon landing was faked. The Jews caused 9/11. The Holocaust never happened. Osama bin Laden is still alive, Sandy Hook was a false flag operation by the US government… and on and on.
The Wolf
My comment got deleted. Understandably so. Mods, any chance there’s a way I can convey that information without it getting deleted?
just say it was someone famous
Wolf-
You forgot about planet x Nibiru…
Now I am curious to know what Sam2 wrote..
Someone famous said that vaccines gave her kid autism and this famous woman crusaded for others to believe her. And then lots of moronic men (V’hameivin Yavin) believed her and once it became societally not-crazy to believe in anti-vaccination, so others followed along too and even found “logic” in it.
Ironically enough, it turns out her kid has a genetic disorder from birth, not autism.
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