December 7, 2020 12:17 pm at 12:17 pm #1926635
If any of you have owned a basic 2-serving George Foreman (Non-removable plates, and a single red warming-up light), how did you manage to toivel it without letting the area where the cord is attached get wet?December 7, 2020 1:08 pm at 1:08 pm #1926667GoldilocksParticipant
I toiveled the entire thing, including the cord. Then I let it dry out for a few days before using it.December 7, 2020 1:43 pm at 1:43 pm #1926671Yserbius123Participant
Unless it’s a complicated electric device like a Keurig or a Sous Vide, you’re safe toiveling the whole thing as long as you keep it dry for a few days before you use it.December 7, 2020 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #1926703December 7, 2020 2:12 pm at 2:12 pm #1926680
same as Goldilocks
Ive toiveled several George Forman grills sandwich makers , hot water urns, the pizza maker from betty crocker over the years. LEt them sit for week before using and havent had any problems.
Never anything electronic with a display screen like KeurigsDecember 7, 2020 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #1926710
OK, thanks for the info, though i’ll try to avoid the cord getting wet. That’s OK according to halacha, so i was told by a rabbi.December 7, 2020 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #1926819
I would have answered what your Rav saidDecember 8, 2020 1:05 am at 1:05 am #1926879catch yourselfParticipant
Rav Belsky zatza”l reportedly held that a Keurig does not require tevila.
My Rav told me that although there are those who allow tevila without the cord, “it’s not Kedai to rely on that [opinion].”December 8, 2020 6:41 am at 6:41 am #1926961Avi KParticipant
Be careful. Foreman may be 71 but he is still Big George and he might not take kindly to being tovelled. BTW, there are opinions that something that is only used when plugged in is considered attached to the ground and does not need tevilla.December 8, 2020 11:21 am at 11:21 am #1927008
On a tangent, is my response to the nwo post publicly Invisible? Because its visible to me, but my penname isn’t listed as the last poster in the thread-listing area.
Why is that? Is it a bug, or is it censorship – or what? I mean standard practice has usually been for moderators to PM people when their post is being deleted, along with a copy of the post. But what about if their post is invisible but they don’t know it?
We do not have a means of “pm-ing” posters when something gets deleted. We do, ocassionally, post it in ‘private mode’ which would be visible only to you but there would likely be a message inserted. I will check your post to see what is wrong.-29December 8, 2020 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #1927142
Idk if that’s entirely true 29
But thanks for the compliment
Don’t know if you noticed but that was a private messageDecember 8, 2020 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #1927154
This is confusing.
Are you saying that post-1927142 (and the one above it) are actually PM’s which are not publicly visible, even though they display to me on this thread? I absolutely never encountered this in my entire online experience, although i did once receive a PM which was not intended for me, but rather was the two moderators discussing my post to each other!December 8, 2020 4:11 pm at 4:11 pm #1927155
P.S. I’m still showing KGN as the last poster on the NWO thread, even though that isn’t the actuality.December 8, 2020 4:31 pm at 4:31 pm #1927171
Rav Belsky zatza”l reportedly held that a Keurig does not require tevila.
Rav Dovid Feinstein zt”l held it does, so the only eitzah is to have it owned by a guy.
BTW, there are opinions that something that is only used when plugged in is considered attached to the ground and does not need tevilla.
Minority opinion. R’ Moshe zt”l didn’t hold of that.December 8, 2020 9:31 pm at 9:31 pm #1927240
“Don’t know if you noticed but that was a private message“
I did 😉
is that how posters edit their comments?
“This reply was modified 1 day, 6 hours ago by YW Moderator-💯.
This reply was modified 4 hours, 34 minutes ago by YW Moderator-💯.“ except sometimes it says it was edited by the poster?
When an edit is done, it will list the mod who approved the post first, and then list the one who did the edit.December 9, 2020 12:23 am at 12:23 am #1927260
To avoid confusion, Reb Foreman recommends that the grill NOT be plugged in while being toiveled.December 9, 2020 10:45 pm at 10:45 pm #1927490
to have the humriest grill that all YWNers would be able to emjoy –
cut the cord and scratch the paint off before toivelingDecember 10, 2020 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #1927716MenoParticipant
From a safety standpoint, the cord is probably the area of least concern. It’s covered with several layers of insulation, and the metal prongs will dry fairly quickly.
Just tovel the whole thing and let it dry. Use a hair dryer to speed up the process.December 12, 2020 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #1928024Lamdan LLCParticipant
If I understand correctly, the bold letters/words/sentences etc., are written by the moderator (as a reply to the poster?), NOT by the poster. Is it even possible for a poster to edit their own post?December 13, 2020 8:45 am at 8:45 am #1928109beisyosefParticipant
The best solution I can recommend is to watch a youtube video where they disassemble it, to a point where most ppl wouldn’t know how to put it back together, and then reassemble it. Even though the poskim say to bring it to an uman, that’s just so the average person wouldn’t be able to do that.
Yafter doing this you are halachically making the keli and no longer require tevilah. (This is a better solution than what @daasyochid suggests because by giving it to a goy many poskim still hold that you require tevilah if it will stay in a jew’s reshus long-term)
HatzlachaDecember 13, 2020 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #1928201MenoParticipant
Why is that solution better than toveling it and letting it dry?
If someone is concerned about the danger aspect, I think your solution is more dangerous.December 13, 2020 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #1928224
as a general solution: how about reading instructions or inquiring with the manufacturer – do they allow putting the object in the water? would this void the warranty?
you may feel that this looks safe, but manufacturer will know better. Look at recurring incidents with shabbos fires – people can underestimate the risks.December 13, 2020 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #1928235
The manufacturer always says not to immerse. So according to most poskim, either don’t buy a George Foreman (or urn, etc.) or immerse and let it dry out, as many have done successfully with no issues despite what the manufacturer says.December 13, 2020 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #1928237
I think he was replying regarding a keurig, which is waht DY was reffering tooDecember 13, 2020 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #1928240
This is a better solution than what @daasyochid suggests because by giving it to a goy many poskim still hold that you require tevilah if it will stay in a jew’s reshus long-term
You are correct that halachically it’s better to disassemble and reassemble, but most people can’t/aren’t going to do that even with a YT video.December 13, 2020 6:57 pm at 6:57 pm #1928245
If it were really that easy, I wonder if it would even be considered a ma’aseh uman.December 13, 2020 9:08 pm at 9:08 pm #1928271
Perhaps some startup company in EY will begin manufacturing a basic line of small appliances that have been made “water resistant” and “toivel friendly”. I’m not sure if the higher costs for “sealing” such items like sandwich grills, toasters coffee makers, blenders, etc. makes it even remotely economically feasible since the large percentage of frum families are not the type that are going to purchase the really high-end, very expensive version of these appliances.December 13, 2020 9:55 pm at 9:55 pm #1928301
GH, what some companies actually do is have the parts owned by a Jew when they are assembled, so that they don’t require tevila to begin with. These products will be marked as such, with a hechsher.
Not all poskim are happy with every company’s contractual arrangement with the manufacturer, so just like the food products you buy, make sure your posek approves of the hechsher.December 14, 2020 1:17 am at 1:17 am #1928316
>> with no issues despite what the manufacturer says.
“famous last words”
Why do you disregard expert opinion to satisfy your inner desire to be mahmir?December 14, 2020 1:18 am at 1:18 am #1928320
Perhaps the same rabbi’s who arrange to sell chometz, can also arrange that, hmm?
Brother, how can a simple Q have turned into something so convoluted?
Some say to toivel, and some say “in a yoivel”
Some say Car-duffel, and some say Car-muffel
Let’s call the whole thing OFF! OK?December 18, 2020 12:44 am at 12:44 am #1929721
Are Rabbis exempt from gramah damages as professionals? I presume here that he is a professional in psak but not in electrical engineering.
So, if a Rav suggest toiveling and then the device is damaged or there is a fire, is he liable?December 19, 2020 10:07 pm at 10:07 pm #1929975
If someone tells you to jump off the roof of the beis medrash with “real emunah” so that you can “fly” and you follow his musar and fall 3 floors and break every bone in your body, good luck in finding any plaintiff’s counsel who will take your case. If your local Rav/Posek tells you to use an electric appliance in direct contradiction of the manufacturer’s instructions and you burn down your house, unless you are of diminished mental capacity and your LRP was aware of your inability to comprehend what you were doing, I suspect you’d also have a hard time in court. Not sure what a beis din would do.December 20, 2020 8:22 pm at 8:22 pm #1930297
GH “jump off the roof” –
that I understand, but what about less obvious cases – “manufacturers just don’t want to deal with it”, “they don’t care”, or “trust me, I know what your child need to learn”.December 20, 2020 10:47 pm at 10:47 pm #1930311
Always ask: Its different than a coat-check room at a Simcha hall posting a sign that they are “not responsible” if your $4,000 streimlach or wife’s mink coat is stolen in an effort to evade legal responsibility. In general, you don’t waive your rights to sue for obvious negligence. However, when someone knowingly engages in an action in direct contradiction to the manufacturer’s guidance, there is a much lesser case to be made for manufacturer liability since there are no reps that the grill would survive a bout with the mikvah.December 21, 2020 8:35 am at 8:35 am #1930478
I was discussing this thread with a friend yesterday evening who suggested that if you are going to insist on using the grill after toiveling, make sure you plug it in to an outlet (or on a circuit) with a ground fault interrupter. Its no guarantee but might lessen the risk of a short overheating and starting a fire or giving you a shock if there is residual moisture that hasn’t dried out. The modern building codes generally require such outlets on kitchen and bath counters near a sink or water source so it shouldn’t be difficult to find one.December 21, 2020 9:18 am at 9:18 am #1930526
“manufacturers just don’t want to deal with it”, “they don’t care”, or “trust me, I know what your child need to learn”.”
I’m not sure who you are quoting. Nobody said that.
you do not have to use a George forman, you will live there is no chiyuv, mitzva or even chumra to buy one.
IF you do buy one, the question is how to deal with the tevila issue. Some allow one to rely on the fact that it is plugged in, most don’t. Some may rely on that if combiend with selling to a goy most don’t. You can try taking it apart as others have suggested (though I would bet this would void any warranty just as much as immersion would)
I have toveleed probably 20 or so electric appliances (urns, George formans, Sandwich makers, pannini press, Pizza maker) with no problems. does that gaurantee none of them will break? OF course not .
If you don’t want to risk it and feel the tevila is not worth it. That is 100% fine. NO ONE is telling you that youhave to get a George forman and risk anything. Don’t you aren’t missing out muchDecember 21, 2020 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #1930711
ubiq: you do not have to use a George forman
you have a good point. This is a jarring disconnect – we are considering a person who has a yetzer hara for George Forman that he can and yetzer hatov to risk both money and personal safety for a mitzva of tevilah.
We need to consider how do these two desires simultaneously coexist in the same neshomah.
L’tzad zechut: he is willing to buy the most expensive appliance (is it? Not a bokeh) to then risk to lose in toveling. Mamash hiddur mitzva. He also probably paid $300 for the esrog.
On the other hand, maybe he is just driven to excesses in everything.December 21, 2020 10:12 pm at 10:12 pm #1930744
” and yetzer hatov to risk both money and personal safety for a mitzva of tevilah”
The good news is the risk to both money and safety is negligibleDecember 22, 2020 7:04 pm at 7:04 pm #1931073
ubiquitin @risk to both money and safety is negligible
could you give an estimate and a source?December 22, 2020 9:14 pm at 9:14 pm #1931107
“could you give an estimate and a source?”
Approximately 0% risk rounded to nearest whole number. source is years of practical experience both my own, and many friends and family
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