Toiveling Plastic Utensils????

As far as what my rov told me, plain plastic does not require tevila. The SILVER colored plastic, however, could possibly be a shailah if the color is derived from a metallic coating,so I would ask a rov (and I never considered that idea before this post, so I am glad it was brought up). If people are toiveling plastic, this is certainly something VERY new to me, and I will refrain from further comment.

aren’t there certain materials that require toiveling v’zehoo?

by toiveling plastic keilim, the fact that it is disposable is beside the point! Alumanim pans are different because it is made out of a material that requires toiveling. the only question is regarding the fact that it is disposable. Since when does plastic need tevilla!?!

Still, only one family I know thinks it is outright shtus but because it’s so easy to do I think they do it anyway (just as I do).

I am against this practice. There is a halachic reason to tovel, and from what I understand plastic does NOT fall into it. Perpetuating this will most likely mean that the next generation will say its assur to use something plastic if its not toveled! We should follow halacha, and not things that are done because no one knows. Why not just ask your Rav?

As I said before, it is not a widespread minhag but it is a real one. And it sounds silly when you young ‘uns announce that it was started 15 to 20 years ago. Were any of you around back then to know?

I am NOT against following the minhag if thats your minhag. I am against the practice of “someone does it so even though I don’t think its anything relating to halacha I will do it.” The problem is that when you pass this on to your children, they might confuse halacha, minhag, chumra…

Its like the story of a young women who gets married. She is making a roast for her husband, who asks her why she cut off the end to save for a later date. She said “I don’t know, its because my mother always did it.” So she asks her mother who says “I don’t know, because MY mother always did it.” They go to the grandmother who says “I didn’t have a large enough pan to fit an entire roast.

If I recall correctly, The original de’oraysah was either on all metals (R’ Dovid Feinstein) or on 6 metals (Rabbi Belsky). Glass is derabannan, since it is melted and forged like metal. Platic was never included in the gezeirah, just like potatoes were never included in the gezeirah of kitniyus. Rabbi Belsky (according to my brother) holds even aluminum doesn’t require tevila, since it’s a metal not included in the passuk, and no gezeirah derabbanan on it.

When I forwarded my brother a text I got that many rebbes want the plane from flight 1549 because it was toiveled, he told me that Rabbi belsky holds aluminum does not require tevila. That opened up other points, like air bubbles inside the plane and the fact that the plane bottom got shredded, so no longer a beis kibbul and no longer a kli.

Bottom line- plastic is definitely not a metal and not glass. It’s a logical extension of a derabananan, but we do not do these things today, unless specifically ordered to by an acharon. (v Yoreh deiah 87 and the machlokes Shach and Pri chadash if we extend the gezeirah of putting fish scales in fish blood to putting almonds next to almond milk). Toiveling plastic is either am haaratzus or a chumra yeseira, albeit a logical one.

reuven bought a cup that was made out of thick plastic and thought it was glass. He toiveled it.

Shimon saw Reuven toiveling plastic so he toiveled his plastic salad bowl

Levi saw Shimon and since he was of the opinion that disposable things have to be toiveled if they will be reused. He toiveled his pack of 500 plastic plates.

This story never happened but somthing similar probably did!

Itz, one thing i don’t get, if you think it’s a shtus, why do you do it???

Also, is anyone positive that this can fall into the catagory of chumra? As far as I know, a chumra has to have some kind of basis to it in halacha not stam a misconception!

By the way, do I need to toivel my husbands socks? what if someone finds it on the floor of the mikva thinks it’s his and takes it home. his wife maybe uses socks to hold apples in or to strain her soup and maybe they are of the opinion that cotton needs tvila.

(btw, if there is some kind of source that plastic needs tvila, I don’t want to make fun of that minhag. I just think it’s rediculous to toivel plastic just because you see your neighbors doing it. I never heard of this practice before. It would be a good minhag for me because it would be simpler for me to wash the dishes than to toivel 500 plastic plates. So i’d save money!)

SJSinNYC

for once I agree with you! 🙂

it’s rediculous

If someone comes up with a source then I accept but if it is done plain out of pure stupidity then it’s crazy.

1)Now, who here holds that one must unravel the entire roll of tin foil and toivel every centimeter of it before making a tin foil shtreimel for Purim?????

Are you kidding – Only if one plans to eat his hat!

2)So, I will continue to toivel my plastic. If someone comes along and starts toiveling cardboard THEN I might start to worry.

Itzik, you may have said that in jest, but honestly – what is the difference between toiveling plastic utensils made from recycled plastic and say, a cardboard box made from recycled paper pulp, that holds a cake? By the logic that has been used, if you do one, then you takeh SHOULD do the other. Does anyone know how paper is made – it comes from trees. But wait – WOOD does not require tevila, and neither does plastic, acording to the halachos of tevilas keilim that I just saw on-line, which gave an extensive and impressive list of what needs to be toiveled and whether or not a brocha is made.

These things are not harmless at all, as one might think. They are very dangerous practices of people who are changing the Torah’s requirements (thinking they are being extra-pious because of it), and altering the Torah is an aveira, not harmless at all. Kol hamosif, goraya. The danger is in the clearcut eventual disunity it cause among Jews. What’s next, those Jews who are doing this will start saying you can’t use a caterer who is not makpid to toivel his plastic cutlery?

If a godol hador who knows what he is talking about AND also knows exactly how these things are made and processed, comes out with a p’sak (not just an “eitzah”) that we MUST toivel our plastic ware, I will be first in line at the mikveh.

Here is a halacha snippet from another website. Not that rov poskim argue on this.

Those who believe that one should immerse plastic utensils without a blessing (see Darkei Teshuva 120:14 and Dayan Weiss, Teshuvot Minchat Yitzchak 3:76-78 and 4:114) present the following argument: The Rabbis require glass utensils to be immersed due to their similarity to metal utensils, in that both metal and glass utensils can be repaired if they are broken or shattered. The minority view argues that since plastic utensils can be repaired, they are also required to be immersed due to their similarity to metal utensils. These authorities suggest that the rabbinic enactment recorded in the Talmud should be viewed as a requirement to immerse any utensil that can be repaired if broken.

according to jothar there is a basis for toiveling plastic so by all means do so, but not because your neighbors do and even though you think it is a shtus, you do as well.

Itzik_s, we don’t darshen taamei hamitzvos. And if halacha paskens that there is no need, then there is no klipah to be elevated.

There is a mekor, but it’s a minority opinion. This is a derabanan, not a deoraysah.Even those who are makpid would certainly agree that eating from plastic keilim which weren’t toiveled is not a problem. Hamachmir yachmir leatzmo.

That is what I don’t understand. Someone, somewhere either decided with good reason that reusable plastic has the same dinim as glass or someone just plain made up a chumra that somehow became the new standard.

This is your quote from a ways up.

Also, I will add my voice to those who really do not want to hear the opinions of the more modern posters when asking about halacha and minhagim. I was interested in knowing whether other communities did this, not for opinions as to where this will lead. I see far more communities and individuals disintegrating because of allowing and encouraging bending of rules in order to make them more palatable to those who are breaking them anyway as opposed to people resenting a new communal stringency or practice (when it is explained properly as opposed to being forced down people’s throats).

In fact I don’t like to ask questions of this type (halachic but not asking for psak) anywhere online because the modern contingent of any online community tends to be the most vocal and the least sensitive and those who are questioning can often use these opinions as the first excuse toward throwing it all off.

I assume you are talking about me as the modern contingent. Let me assure you that I respect when people follow their minhagim and chumras – when they are based in something. I am against people either making up minhagim or just doing something because others do it. It is very dangerous in BOTH directions (in fact, it is the same idea).

What if a young woman, newly engaged, goes to the mikvah to tovel keilim and knows “only glass gets toveled w/o a bracha and metal gets toveled with a bracha.” She enters the mikvah and realizes what she has is glass and plastic. She knows you don’t make a bracha on glass, so she starts with the plastic and mistakingly makes a bracha. Why? All because it was just something that people did, not because it was explained.

If you reread my posts, you will see that at no point did I say “oh its a stupid minhag” or anything like that. Just that its dangerous to follow the community without halachic backing.

Itzik_s

I just didn’t like the fact that you were doing something that you openly referred to as a shtus. if it is a minhag that has a basis then fine.